Pace, Pressure, Rhythm, Flails, Delivery Paths, Acceleration and Pulley Sizes

[Burner]

Oh, Oh...Burner!

No Pig for you.
How do you like your Steak cooked!

Keep in mind that it's "roll" (true overtaking) not uncocking that is the Pace measurement.

Just so long as it is not my Goose that is being cooked then I will take the Steak just as it comes.

I will revisit "cocking" and "roll" to get a better perspective. Thanks.

[12 piece bucket]

Bucket,

Homer mentions the need for fast hands in 7-18, but that is in relation to a larger #3 angle and circle path. Slower hands being effective for straight line delivery with small #3 angle for a snap release.

What about all these boys on TOUR with big ole #3 angles trying to rip the ball with fast hands. Are they more inclined to be circle pathers?

Triggers, Paddlewheels and Belts - Not the kind that are in your closet.

Mikey borrowed them when he was sprucing up his closet for the big coming out party.

Now you have pounced upon my point of this here discussion in the first place.

In answer to your question . . . hell naw . . . we should absolutely not make them circle pathers. I think that is what Ledbetter was trying to do in terms of "de-Lagging" people.

The answer is here "overacceleration is the menace that stalks all lag and drag" . . . even on the PGA tour.

The simple answer is SLOW down . . . don't overload. Most of them dudes are Swangers. Mr. Kelley said CF wants to travel at a certain speed which is probably slower than what we want particularly under the gun. My analysis of Eldrick's bad shots is overacceleration. I think his alignments are fabulous. That small pulley can't handle that much speed without bustin' up the works.

[mrodock]

In answer to your question . . . hell naw . . . we should absolutely not make them circle pathers. I think that is what Ledbetter was trying to do in terms of "de-Lagging" people.

The answer is here "overacceleration is the menace that stalks all lag and drag" . . . even on the PGA tour.

The simple answer is SLOW down . . . don't overload. Most of them dudes are Swangers. Mr. Kelley said CF wants to travel at a certain speed which is probably slower than what we want particularly under the gun. My analysis of Eldrick's bad shots is overacceleration. I think his alignments are fabulous. That small pulley can't handle that much speed without bustin' up the works.

Hall of fame post

[mrodock]

The simple answer is SLOW down . . . don't overload. Most of them dudes are Swangers. Mr. Kelley said CF wants to travel at a certain speed which is probably slower than what we want particularly under the gun.

I think Gregg McHatton is an extraordinary example of slow start down, small pulley, no chance whatsoever of overacceleration, and from what I've heard hits it a ton. His downswing takes 6 frames from what I could tell, and by just watching the swing I would have guessed about 10 or 11.

[Bagger Lance]

Mikey borrowed them when he was sprucing up his closet for the big coming out party.

Now you have pounced upon my point of this here discussion in the first place.

In answer to your question . . . hell naw . . . we should absolutely not make them circle pathers. I think that is what Ledbetter was trying to do in terms of "de-Lagging" people.

The answer is here "overacceleration is the menace that stalks all lag and drag" . . . even on the PGA tour.

I'm gunna leave you alone now Bucket cause Yodas coming home soon and when he finds out about all the trouble I've been causing after breaking out of my wiring closet, he might take away my nerd badge.

But before I go, watchu got against circle path?
I'm not a big fan of it, but I've seen some pretty effective use. Why is it the black sheep in teaching circles. I have my thoughts about it, but trust y'all will work it out.

Thanks for letting me have recess.

[12 piece bucket]

I'm gunna leave you alone now Bucket cause Yodas coming home soon and when he finds out about all the trouble I've been causing after breaking out of my wiring closet, he might take away my nerd badge.

But before I go, watchu got against circle path?
I'm not a big fan of it, but I've seen some pretty effective use. Why is it the black sheep in teaching circles. I have my thoughts about it, but trust y'all will work it out.

Thanks for letting me have recess.

Oh don't get me wrong I got nothing against Circle Path. Tom Watson was a sweepy type but he's got what 9 or so Majors? David Orr had a pick of a dude using Circle Path out here at one point and people freaked out and said it looked 'flickdid. But if he had just posted the impact pic . . . the same folks would have been like shaazaam! I think the Circle dealie is fine but inoder for you to get the same clubhead speed for full power shots you'd better be ready or have some hand speed. But for "arms shots" and short game shots and flops and non-pivot delivery strokes circle path is superior. Mr. Kelley said zero out your pivot and hit "full" shots arms shots and see what kind of distance and control you can creat. May be surprised.

I'm just trying to make a point that many who get jacked up about automatic snap releases and small pulleys and line delivery and max trigger delay . . . better SLOW DOWN to take maximum advantage of the mechanical advantage that a small pulley at the end of that endless belt presents.

I think that's why you see Tiger hit some weird out of character shots. He don't need another make-over. He needs to back it down just a little . . . he'd be nastier'n he already is. Think about that performance he gave at Ballibunion or wherever the heck that was. If he thought of the driver as his "play" club as Mr. Jones used to say . . . and brought the same sense of precision and reserve as he did those long irons rather than trying to come off the top rope, he may live on an $80 million dollar island, be #1 in the world and have one the hottest women on the planet as his old lady . . . uh wait a minute.

A. You don't need all that hand speed with a snap release . .. that's the whole point of the thing anyway.
B. The small pulley physically DEMANDS relatively slower handspeed . . . otherwise forget about precision alignments and potentially your flat left wrist.

[Bagger Lance]

A. You don't need all that hand speed with a snap release . .. that's the whole point of the thing anyway.
B. The small pulley physically DEMANDS relatively slower handspeed . . . otherwise forget about precision alignments and potentially your flat left wrist.

Amen!
Keep preach'in it brutha.

[bts]

BTS,

Good point - glad you brought it up.
How do you build your pattern? How do you know if you are mixing the wrong components that are compatible, i.e. within "LAW"?

I pretty much tried a lot, if not all, of the patterns, which pretty much all work, if given enough practice or maintainance and as long as the clubhead behaves accordingly. What left is efficiency, maintainance and reliability. Finally I choose (and teach) shoulder rotation and straight lead arm against "lag" as my default pattern, which all I need to do is "load and sustain the lag" by rotating, turning or spining my shoulders, just like the way the blades of the celing fan or helicopter are driven.

The "Lag" builds up, sustains and releases, the club and lead arm moves on a flat plane, the wrist bends or cocks and unbends and uncocks, the forearms turn and rolls (so does the clubface open and close), the pivot tilts, the head fixed, ..... on and on and on, you name it, which all takes care by themselves (or the "LAW").

The "LAW" usually gets interrupted, if any of the above has been tried to be accomplished. That is, if you pick it up, you tend to pick it more up or less up; if you aim it, you tend to over aim or under aim; if you roll it, you tend to over roll or under roll; if you tilt it; you tend to over tilt or under tilt;... on and on and on, you name it. It's a harmonious and highly coordinated event, during which the whole thing gets affected, if one of the components gets screwed.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if we left things alone because they are LAW, I think we would still be living in caves. But then again, sometimes things are "so simple even a caveman can do it."
(It's a Geico insurance commercial tagline we have in the States. I had to insert that for Buckets benefit.)

I'm getting off topic but this would make a good thread in "The Lab"
Universal laws and principles must be understood and tested. Their boundries explored and relationships to each other comprehended. Laws and Principles - Different but related. Is Centrifugal Force a law or principle? Should you tell a Hitter to use Centrifugal Force?

This isn't about metaphysics, it's basic science.

Then they can be used for a purpose and yes, even manipulated.
.......................

So true. The "LAW" or "Principles" can be used to explain how things work and be applied to work things out. Yet, the result shows, if you do the right thing by executing the right "intent", regardless of knowing what behinds it. Knowing it won't hurt, knowing it and misapplying it hurt.
I don't worry about the food gets to stay in the guts for how long, but what I choose to eat, clean or not, healthy or not.

BTW, "Centrifugal Force" is a term called by certain people describing an inertial force, which can be explained by "Newton's First Law". I tell or teach a "hitter" to bend the shaft through the ball by pushing against the grip with both hands.

[Bagger Lance]

Finally I choose (and teach) shoulder rotation and straight lead arm against "lag" as my default pattern, which all I need to do is "load and sustain the lag" by rotating, turning or spining my shoulders, just like the way the blades of the celing fan or helicopter are driven.

The "Lag" builds up, sustains and releases, the club and lead arm moves on a flat plane, the wrist bends or cocks and unbends and uncocks, the forearms turn and rolls (so does the clubface open and close), the pivot tilts, the head fixed, ..... on and on and on, you name it, which all takes care by themselves (or the "LAW").

Sounds like 10-24-F is working for you and I think that's great. Pivot controlled hands is a viable option. Thanks for clarifying your "LAW".

I think the Circle dealie is fine but inoder for you to get the same clubhead speed for full power shots you'd better be ready or have some hand speed. But for "arms shots" and short game shots and flops and non-pivot delivery strokes circle path is superior. Mr. Kelley said zero out your pivot and hit "full" shots arms shots and see what kind of distance and control you can creat. May be surprised.

Nice - score 1 for the circle path and short game control.

I'm just trying to make a point that many who get jacked up about automatic snap releases and small pulleys and line delivery and max trigger delay . . . better SLOW DOWN to take maximum advantage of the mechanical advantage that a small pulley at the end of that endless belt presents.

Very big point. I hope everyone appreciates this because it's golden.

I think that's why you see Tiger hit some weird out of character shots. He don't need another make-over. He needs to back it down just a little . . . he'd be nastier'n he already is. Think about that performance he gave at Ballibunion or wherever the heck that was. If he thought of the driver as his "play" club as Mr. Jones used to say . . . and brought the same sense of precision and reserve as he did those long irons rather than trying to come off the top rope, he may live on an $80 million dollar island, be #1 in the world and have one the hottest women on the planet as his old lady . . . uh wait a minute.

Every time I see Tiger lash at the ball I cringe. Most times he gets the timing right because its in his DNA, but its not surprising to see his finish station as FORE RIGHT...FORE LEFT. A few minor tweaks and he will be untouchable for many, many generations.

Don't wipe the grease from your fingers yet. There's still a lot of meat left on the bone.
Discussed slow hands around the belt, straight line delivery vs. circle, rhythm, (pace) and snap/sweep release.

What happens to the paddlewheel when you hit the corner and when should you pull the trigger?
How do those TOUR dudes get away with such a big #3 angle at setup and still snap it?

I have to go now...really...I mean it...not coming back.

[12 piece bucket]

Don't wipe the grease from your fingers yet. There's still a lot of meat left on the bone.
Discussed slow hands around the belt, straight line delivery vs. circle, rhythm, (pace) and snap/sweep release.

What happens to the paddlewheel when you hit the corner and when should you pull the trigger?
How do those TOUR dudes get away with such a big #3 angle at setup and still snap it?

I have to go now...really...I mean it...not coming back.

This is my analysis of the above (or non-analysis) of your second question . . .

I think it is really difficult to tell the amount of #3 angle present at address on many people and the TOUR dudes especially. Most of those dudes set up with "LOW" hands. The #3 Accumulator Angle is established when the Left Wrist is Flat and LEVEL. Most of the Tour dudes play from Standard Address with "LOW" hands and a Bent Left Wrist. I would surmize that as a result of their "LOW" hands, the Left Wrist is actually Bent and COCKED at address. So if you compared the down the line view of Address vs. Impact you'd see "HIGHER" hands at Impact revealing the true #3 Accumulator Angle. So basically I don't think you can make an assumption one way or the other from their "LOW" hands address position.

THIS AT ADDRESS


VS THIS AT ADDRESS


So alot of it has to do with not only the angle set but also waist bend and knee bend too.

I'm not sure I understand what you're axing in the first question . . . HOLLA BACKONDAT!