If a 2x4 was moving at 10 mph and hit me, I would not fall over. However, if a car hit me traveling 10 mph, I would most certainly fall over.
It seems that the mass behind the item striking me has something to do with the way my body will react when struck.
I've heard Yoda talk about "effective mass" being more important than clubhead speed. But I must confess, it's not a concept I claim to understand.
That dog doesn't hunt.
1. Your mass compared to the 2x4 is not the same as the clubhead to the ball.
2. Your mass compared to the car is probably closer the clubhead/golf ball relationship, maybe a bit higher.
3. Both the 2x4 and Car would equate to being the clubhead. In effect we have two different clubs in this example.
I guess I am missing your points. The golf club, the handle/grip is being moved, it doesn't matter what is moving it if in fact it can move the same as another. It generated velocity, acceleration, it has equat mass (clubhead) so with all this being equal, both will act the same when striking the golf ball.
It is only when the resistance exceeds the applied force generation of one and not the other, will it act differently.
If we accept the fact that every component lags the previous component, the feed back time to effect anything other than the hands is beyond the impact/separation time which once the ball is gone, loss of acceleration at that point will not effect the shot.
We are talking about the effect of hitting the golf ball, not how one might precieve the follow through or lack of?
I am beginning to think I have misunderstood this exercise. Equal power applied is equal power applied. Meeting resistance is equal for both.
In your example, that 10mph 2x4 is like an 'average' golfer. There is speed, but generally not much mass. Not much 'support' behind impact.
That 10mph car is a tour player - same speed, more mass. Lots of 'support' behind impact.
So the question is, how do you get MASS in your swing.
And the answer, to put it simply - is maximum lag PRESSURE
Which in a 'feel' sense is a HEAVY club. Feeling PP#3.
Brian's 'shopping cart' image.
How many times have you watched a tour player take an easy swing, yet the ball rockets off the face? The reason, they have the proper sequence that maintains lag pressure and thus delivers MASS to impact.
Extensor action is a great shortcut. As are 'slow motion' drills - hitting your 160 club only 100 yards with a full, smooth, flowing motion.
Sustain the line of compression
this is really just for anybody else out there for whom the idea of "transfer of mass doesn't work (i just can't buy into the idea more mass getting to any given clubhead)...i think getting "more effective mass" by "maintaining max lag pressure" is the way to have max clubhead acceleration at impact...and since i think how far the ball goes is governed by F=ma, then acceleration works just as well as mass...that and hitting the right part of ball with the sweetspot (which also ups your "effective mass" by getting the center of mass and thus "all" the mass of the clubhead on the ball, thus more force) in the right direction (ie sustain the line of compression) is in my mind what allows a pro with a smaller mass than i have to hit balls a lot further...again, just an alternative way of thinking about it, use whatever works...
We are getting statements here that may apply to Hitting but not Swinging. For Swinging, it is only necessary to keep the butt of the club ahead of the clubhead through the Impact Interval and to keep it from backing up, which does not require a lot of mass. Swinging produces a "whallop", which comes solely from CF. Mass can contribute only to the extent that it can provide left arm speed from rotation. This idea of getting more mass into the stroke is a Hitting notion.
I supposed so MJ, although personally the duality of swing/hit is another topic. I don't really consider them 'either/or', but a spectrum. In my view, the 'ideal' swing would start out as a 'swing' and end up as a 'hit'.
Even swingers must have both hands on the club for the most effective impact.
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It's my view, and I may be incorrect, that "hit vs. swing" doesn't start until release point. Both hits and swings are "pulled" until you get to your release point. Only from there will you continue to pull (drag) or hit (drive). I think this is why they both look similar...because they ARE similar until release.
It's my view, and I may be incorrect, that "hit vs. swing" doesn't start until release point. Both hits and swings are "pulled" until you get to your release point. Only from there will you continue to pull (drag) or hit (drive). I think this is why they both look similar...because they ARE similar until release.
The small pulley, snap release Swing has a deeper release point than most, if not all, Hitting procedures.
In addition to what occurs from release to impact, the swinger's motion is an instantaneous acceleration from the Top, where as the hitter's motion begins as a deliberate resistance of the backstroke. There is a post by Yoda using the term "Cranking the Gysoscope", do a search.
Also check 10-19-A and 10-19-C for pace of the start down.
It's my view, and I may be incorrect, that "hit vs. swing" doesn't start until release point. Both hits and swings are "pulled" until you get to your release point. Only from there will you continue to pull (drag) or hit (drive). I think this is why they both look similar...because they ARE similar until release.
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Hitting and Swinging are different... mostly in the way the Right Shoulder and Right Arm are used. Gyroscope/Passive Right Arm--Swinging Launching Pad/Active Right Arm-- Hitting
6-H-O is a good example of the differences.
If a 2x4 was moving at 10 mph and hit me, I would not fall over. However, if a car hit me traveling 10 mph, I would most certainly fall over.
It seems that the mass behind the item striking me has something to do with the way my body will react when struck.
I've heard Yoda talk about "effective mass" being more important than clubhead speed. But I must confess, it's not a concept I claim to understand.
That dog doesn't hunt.
1. Your mass compared to the 2x4 is not the same as the clubhead to the ball.
2. Your mass compared to the car is probably closer the clubhead/golf ball relationship, maybe a bit higher.
3. Both the 2x4 and Car would equate to being the clubhead. In effect we have two different clubs in this example.
I guess I am missing your points. The golf club, the handle/grip is being moved, it doesn't matter what is moving it if in fact it can move the same as another. It generated velocity, acceleration, it has equat mass (clubhead) so with all this being equal, both will act the same when striking the golf ball.
It is only when the resistance exceeds the applied force generation of one and not the other, will it act differently.
If we accept the fact that every component lags the previous component, the feed back time to effect anything other than the hands is beyond the impact/separation time which once the ball is gone, loss of acceleration at that point will not effect the shot.
We are talking about the effect of hitting the golf ball, not how one might precieve the follow through or lack of?
I am beginning to think I have misunderstood this exercise. Equal power applied is equal power applied. Meeting resistance is equal for both.
Oh...my dog most definitely hunts!
Now about my post. The point I was making is simply twofold:
1. If two items with different mass strike an object at the same speed, the item with more mass does the most damage.
2. This was more of a question on my part - how do you create more "effective mass" with a golf club so that you get to do more damage?
Now....this leads me to poke on point #2 a little more:
How does "lag pressure" create more effective mass? And is "lag pressure" different from "clubhead lag"?
"Clubhead lag" to me is simply maitaining the lag as long as possible in the golf swing. If my hands are approaching the ball and the clubhead is still above my waist, I've got a tremendous amount of "clubhead lag" which means the clubhead must travel MUCH faster to square up with the ball at impact. As opposed to a situation where my hands are approaching the ball and the clubhead is below my waist - in this case, the clubhead does not need to travel AS FAST to square up with the ball as my first example.
So I've created more clubhead speed by maintaining more cluhead lag.
This obviously didn't create any more mass in my clubhead. Perhaps the answer is - lag pressure is simply the feeling of creating more cluhead lag. And it's really the resulting increase in clubhead speed that hits the ball further. (And you can do this without swinging harder or faster.)
Perhaps this is just a semantics issue, but nothing I described above really creates more "effective mass". I've just described how to effectively create more clubhead speed by maintaining more clubhead lag.
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