Proper right-wrist position at address, etc.?

[12 piece bucket]

I got me one dem deals at Bucket's behest. I realized that I had little or no "face-sense." I was focused on the head for the most part. Moving the handle up and down was a real eye-opener.

HUGE right? (the magnet deal that is) . . .

One other thing you can do with that thingie is get a driveway ninja stick and put on the ground . . . lay the club with the magnet dealy on it . . . if the stick is to the right of magnet dealie ball go curves left . . . if to the left of the dealy curves to the right . . . then monkey with that handle location to see how that works with the path.

[okie]

Word! My new swing thought these days is "Trace the Face" At fix I determine the starting line I want I then draw my straight plane line according to what spin effect I need to produce. If I trace "right"...hook spin...if I trace "left" ...cut spin. I never play very well when my clubface looks left (insufficient lean/low handle) My mid-round band-aid is usually to lift my hands...ya know flv/blv! Taking my grip at fix has also been very helpful.

[laangels]

Ive read that at impact fix that the right forearm should point at the plane line. Is this true, and does this matter for what plane one swings on (turned shoulder vs elbow plane) and is it the same for hitting and swinging? Thanks guys

[12 piece bucket]

Ive read that at impact fix that the right forearm should point at the plane line. Is this true, and does this matter for what plane one swings on (turned shoulder vs elbow plane) and is it the same for hitting and swinging? Thanks guys

At Fix the Right Forearm and the club shaft should be IN THE SAME PLANE ideally . . . according to Mr. Kelley the Elbow Plane is the flattest plane that allows the Right Forearm and shaft to be IN-LINE.

So basically at Fix you are simulating your Impact alignments for the shot at hand. So yes, you'd be determining the Plane Angle here (Turned Shoulder, Elbow, Hands-only etc.). Impact Alignments are the same for Hitting and Swinging . . . so yes it works for both. The other things you are "fixing" in your computer at Fix are the "handle location" - height (plane angle), amount of shaft lean, clubface alignment, wrist conditions all for the shot at hand. You can play from a Fix "Address" or return to Adjusted Address once you have programmed everything at Fix. Early on or during practice you may simulate EVERYTHING at Fix . .. Axis Tilt, amount of Knee Bend, Hip Action, etc. But once you know how it works you may just want to put the handle at the height forward lean you want adjust your face and then grip it from there.

[laangels]

Perfect, thanks a lot Bucket. Does handle height at fix affect how much shaft lean there should be? When the handle is higher, there seems to be not that much lean, but when I lower the handle I need to lean it a lot to make sure the face isnt pointing left. Any truth to this? Am I just completely oblivious to what you have already mentioned in this thread?

[Daryl]

Each club has a built-in degree of Shaft Lean. The Steeper the Lie Angle, the more lean is needed to insure that Ball Separation occurs before the ground is struck. Angle of Attack and the Uncocking Left Wrist.

Procedure: Swingers using one Ball Location, Ala Ben-Hogan (as the club gets shorter, the stance narrows, but ball location is the same distance from Low-Point).

If you lean the shaft and the leading edge of the club remains straight, then you’ve flattened your swing plane and rotated your grip. A properly leaned club will Lean On-Plane and the Leading Edge of the Clubface will open ever so slightly more with each degree of lean. The Clubshaft leans Forward and Rises and the Words on the Grip Face Up and do not Turn as the Clubshaft is leaned. Therefore, the leading edge on a Wedge “Looks” (and is) much more open than the leading edge of a Driver. Wedges swivel more rapidly and over a shorter distance than Drivers.

If you were to grip every club the same way so that the Leading Edge of the Clubface (or name on the grip) and Hands had the same relationship for every Club, then at Impact, the Clubshaft would need to lean more with a Wedge than a Driver for a Straight Ball Flight.

In other words, it may be more beneficial in the end to fix your swing so that your hands are farther ahead at Impact with a Wedge than with a Driver than to compensate by rotating the Clubshaft. The Shoulders are Slightly more open at Impact with a Wedge than with a Driver. So, at Impact Fix, your shoulders are more open with a Wedge than with a Driver. It all goes back to that right forearm on-plane.

Of course, you can compensate for a bad Pivot by moving the Ball back in your stance.
Or, you can train the Pivot. Unfortunately, you'll need to learn the "Magic of the Right Forearm" to train the Pivot.

1-E PATTERN DEVELOPMENT ... The student must approach instruction as a step-by-step process. The only real short cuts are more and more know-how. A careless beginning can be disastrous. Every board and panel must be cut to fit its place and cut to fit in the overall design. It’s as premature to expect the complete results of instruction before the last factor is fitted in, understood and mastered.

[12 piece bucket]

Perfect, thanks a lot Bucket. Does handle height at fix affect how much shaft lean there should be? When the handle is higher, there seems to be not that much lean, but when I lower the handle I need to lean it a lot to make sure the face isnt pointing left. Any truth to this? Am I just completely oblivious to what you have already mentioned in this thread?

You are correct sir . . . the face vector changes FOR SURE . . . think about side hill lies. People think that a ball above you feet is a draw lie . . . not exactly . . . it's a PULL lie and vicey versy for a ball below your feet. So you can use this to your advantage a bit . . . higher handle is more right vector so you can use that to draw the ball. But it gets a little complicated when you consider the #3 Angle implications . . . . more #3 angle gives you more CLUBHEAD travel and less CLUBFACE rotation for a given amount of Roll . . . less #3 gives you more rotation of the face and less head travel. So you have to keep in mind that you can hit any type of curve with ANY Hinge Action. The curvature comes from DIVERGENCE of the path and the face. So if your path is right of where the face is ball curves life and left of where the face looks ball curves right. The bottom line is . . . YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRAP THE FACE AROUND THE BALL TO MAKE IT DRAW. But you don't have to fight your vectors either . . . generally low fade bias face pointing left at set up handle "down-ish" high draw face open some handle "up-ish." The you can experiment with where the ball is in relation to Low Point as well . . . the closer to low point the less "out" in your path.

Consider a guy like Trevino . . . face looking left at set up . . . . he had to move forward and get the shaft leaning enough to get the face OPEN enough that he didn't hit it between his legs left . . . shaft lean with the short irons works because you have plenty of "residual" loft with the loft that you "nick" from leaning the shaft. HOWEVER . . . once you go to the less lofted clubs aiming the face left and leaning the shaft becomes an issue with regards to LOFT . . . hence Lee Buck doesn't hit the long irons high enough relatively at his level.