[12 piece bucket]

Perfect, thanks a lot Bucket. Does handle height at fix affect how much shaft lean there should be? When the handle is higher, there seems to be not that much lean, but when I lower the handle I need to lean it a lot to make sure the face isnt pointing left. Any truth to this? Am I just completely oblivious to what you have already mentioned in this thread?

You are correct sir . . . the face vector changes FOR SURE . . . think about side hill lies. People think that a ball above you feet is a draw lie . . . not exactly . . . it's a PULL lie and vicey versy for a ball below your feet. So you can use this to your advantage a bit . . . higher handle is more right vector so you can use that to draw the ball. But it gets a little complicated when you consider the #3 Angle implications . . . . more #3 angle gives you more CLUBHEAD travel and less CLUBFACE rotation for a given amount of Roll . . . less #3 gives you more rotation of the face and less head travel. So you have to keep in mind that you can hit any type of curve with ANY Hinge Action. The curvature comes from DIVERGENCE of the path and the face. So if your path is right of where the face is ball curves life and left of where the face looks ball curves right. The bottom line is . . . YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRAP THE FACE AROUND THE BALL TO MAKE IT DRAW. But you don't have to fight your vectors either . . . generally low fade bias face pointing left at set up handle "down-ish" high draw face open some handle "up-ish." The you can experiment with where the ball is in relation to Low Point as well . . . the closer to low point the less "out" in your path.

Consider a guy like Trevino . . . face looking left at set up . . . . he had to move forward and get the shaft leaning enough to get the face OPEN enough that he didn't hit it between his legs left . . . shaft lean with the short irons works because you have plenty of "residual" loft with the loft that you "nick" from leaning the shaft. HOWEVER . . . once you go to the less lofted clubs aiming the face left and leaning the shaft becomes an issue with regards to LOFT . . . hence Lee Buck doesn't hit the long irons high enough relatively at his level.