DG - you wrote-: "It's a shame you want to disprove what Tommy taught."
You are totally wrong in your assumption. I am actually trying to understand what Tom taught. Don't mistake my assertive questioning with the idea that I am out to disprove things. People frequently make that assumption because of the tenacity of my questions, but I actually want to understand different viewpoints, so that I can increase my breadth of golf mechanics/physics/geometry knowledge.
DG - you wrote-: "It's a shame you want to disprove what Tommy taught."
You are totally wrong in your assumption. I am actually trying to understand what Tom taught. Don't mistake my assertive questioning with the idea that I am out to disprove things. People frequently make that assumption because of the tenacity of my questions, but I actually want to understand different viewpoints, so that I can increase my breadth of golf mechanics/physics/geometry knowledge.
He shouts that at everyone and anyone that asks a question. Just read TT's magazine article and become an expert in all things tgm and TT. I really like TT videos but when a question is asked- DG throws the Delaware Golf-Tomasello Patriot Act at ya. Kelley loved questions, as does Lynn- I wonder why? btw- ignore button is great but I do get his musings in replies.
He shouts that at everyone and anyone that asks a question. Just read TT's magazine article and become an expert in all things tgm and TT. I really like TT videos but when a question is asked- DG throws the Delaware Golf-Tomasello Patriot Act at ya. Kelley loved questions, as does Lynn- I wonder why? btw- ignore button is great but I do get his musings in replies.
Blah, Blah, Blah.........just like a broken record!!!
In my case, I'm just helping golfers find the truth!!! Yeeeeeeee Hawwwwwww............
Hogan: The Magic of the Right Forearm
HK: The Magic of the Right Forearm
TT: The Magic of the Right Forearm
Blake: The Magic of the Right Forearm
Els: The Magic of the Right Forearm
Longitudinal or Radial acceleration it's All About the Right Forearm.
Are they all using the Right Forearm in the same way?
I don't think so.
What about hips?
The hips might be the single most important component of the golf swing and not all golfers automatically "use" them in the best way by using the Right Forearm to trigger the downswing as TT often says happens automatically I don't think it applies to all.
The hips might be the single most important component of the golf swing and not all golfers automatically "use" them in the best way by using the Right Forearm to trigger the downswing as TT often says happens automatically I don't think it applies to all.
The Pivot Delivers the Bent Right Elbow into Release.
The StraighteningRight Elbow Delivers the Left Arm and Club into Impact and Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position).
All while the Flat Left Wrist controls the Clubface.
However, both Peter Croker and Tom Tomasello are both presuming that the lower body will respond appropriately. However, "appropriate" with respect to the downswing pivot action could be considered to be a learned behaviour and not necessarily an automatic action.
Jeff.
Good point about learnt or automatic...they might be the same if automatic assumes the player understands some key constraints. (in reality no human can assume this from a naive condition...so most of us have to learn and train pivots).
Now you can learn the pivot motion which will enable the right forearm to do its job ...or you can learn the right forearm motion and secondarily discover what your pivot then needs to do to accomodate this motion. Either way there is a degree of learning/training.
I think that the right forearm motion described by DG, TT and EE can become the centre of focus for a player if their right forearm has learnt to move within a "machine" which has certain constraints (constraints on movement)...or "essentials"...or "imperatives" which must always be in place for the right forearm to dictate to the pivot...
The right forearm does not dictate or directly force pivot to respond in a sequential manner...the pivot makes preparatory moves to allow the right forearm to move in its desired manner , beyond impact to both arms straight. It does this unconsciously to allow the constraints on machine to be maintained....
Those constraints are that lag pressure is maintained, straight plane line, steady head, balance etc...you have seen most of these somewhere before
SO... you need 3 essentals, 3 imperatives and straight plane line (most notably through impact)....if your pivot has been programmed to achieve these...then and only then will the right forearm...or hand for that matter...appear to cause movement of the pivot.
PLEASE NOTE...that appearance of right forearm causing pivot movement occurs to the player him/herself alone!!!....why to them alone because that is where their conscious brain is focussed. To the video camera it will still appear that the hips are moving first...and they are.... but they have learnt that they have to do that if the right forearm is going to take its intended path beyond impact and all other contraints are in place and maintained.
If you had an automaton which could automatically maintain balance and steady head etc....then all you would have to do is program in the right forearm flight plan and the automaton wold make sure everything else moved in an appropriate way.... but the human needs some learning...and you can train from the outside - in (move the hands as directed and let the pivot work out what it has to do) or learn from the inside out ( train that pivot so that , as long as the hands do nothing, the hands end up right)
Most people choose the latter, TT and HK were suggesting the former...although Homer would probably have started with zone 1 (pivot essentially) if it were particularly unruly.
I agree with you 100%. I, for example, am an imperfect golfer due to a host of physical disabilities eg. a severe lack of hula-hula flexibility. I therefore have a compensated downswing pivot action. After studying TGM, I got the idea from TGM to start the downswing pivot action with a right shoulder thrust action rather than a pelvic shift-rotation movement. The final "effect" is the same - the downswing pivot action starts from the ground-up. I am also aware of the magic of the right forearm - although my conscious mind is focused on the right shoulder thrust action, I am very cognizant of the fact that the downswing pivot action is subservient to the greater goal of moving the right forearm in a certain way down towards the impact zone that allows me to trace a SPL and that also allows the right forearm to end up behind the shaft at impact so as to support the shaft through impact. At times, when my downswing pivot action is unusually fluid, I switch my conscious mind to my right forearm action and I often "feel" that I am throwing the right forearm from the top of the backstroke position. I am still hoping to discover from DG whether that "right forearm throw" feeling is the same right forearm throw action that Tom talks about in his swing videos.
At times, when my downswing pivot action is unusually fluid, I switch my conscious mind to my right forearm action and I often "feel" that I am throwing the right forearm from the top of the backstroke position. I am still hoping to discover from DG whether that "right forearm throw" feeling is the same right forearm throw action that Tom talks about in his swing videos.
DG - I have watched the lesson number 2 video and the chapter 5 video a few times.
I will now recount what I think that Tom Tomasello was saying, and you can correct me if I am wrong.
Tom was saying that one should throw the right arm at the ball, and that the body should simply get out of the way. He also talked about a push action with reference to the right upper limb, rather than a pull action. He also emphasized the point that when throwing the right arm/forearm at the ball that the right wrist will not become unhinged (neutral or palmar flexed) at impact, and that the right wrist will therefore still be bent (dorsiflexed) at impact.
OK. So, how does he power the swing in his "right arm throw action"? If the pivoting body is not pulling the right arm flying wedge unit (ala Hogan's swing style) and the body is simply getting out of the way during the right "arm throw" action, then the right arm/forearm is pushing forward while the body is getting out of the way. What muscles can "push" the right arm/forearm forward while the body is clearing out of the way? Surely, it must be the shoulder girdle muscles that adduct the right upper arm. While this is happening, the right elbow remains bent, which means that there is isometric tone in the right upper arm muscles that maintain the bent right elbow in the early/mid downswing. At a certain point, the right elbow must straighten. Now, Tom did not specify whether the right elbow straightens due to active muscle contraction of the right triceps muscle (as would occur in a hitter) or whether it is due to a passive pull from a clubshaft that is releasing. I will presume that it is the former - right triceps muscle contraction that actively straightens the right elbow (active release of power accumulator #1). He was not apparently describing a hitting action (thrust in a radial direction as in an axe handle action). I therefore presume that the active release of power accumulator #1 causes right palm pressure against preesure point #1, and that it pushes the left hand, and therefore left arm, forward (as a right arm swinger's action).
To summarise my understanding of Tom's "right arm throw" swing, the power release sequence is 4,1, 2, 3 where power accumulator #4 is powered by the right arm/forearm pushing action (performed by a pulling/shortening of the shoulder girdle muscles that adduct the right arm plus an isometric-pushing action of the right arm/forearm muscles) rather than a downswing pivot action, and where power accumulator #1 release is active (rather than passive).
Is my description accurate, or inaccurate? Feel free to "correct" me as necessary.
btw- ignore button is great but I do get his musings in replies.
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