Yoda, here's TA III driver swings from anterior and lateral view.
To me it looks elbow plane in backswing and forward swing through impact
then he somehow ends up on a shoulder plane on the follow through.
Love TA3...great little float load as well even with the quicker tempo.
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I personally employ a Single Shift. 10-7-B. Elbow to TSP on the way back and then TSP the whole way down. Dont know why I do it , I just do. Normally from End making me a 10-23-C type.
Here's a great Yoda post from a while back on Single vs Double Shift and a typo in the 6th edition's 12-2-O, component 23 for the Drag Loading , Swinger.
If I start with Mid-Body Hands, Standard Address, and RFT to my END, and not move my hands a smidge, and simply Pivot all the way down, won't I be shooting # 3 pp straight at the inside quadrant of the ball by letting the right shoulder slide down plane?
I think I get lost on the way down "firing" # 3 pp as if it were a disconnected tool. My short iron hits are simple. I don't have to Pivot and I can Karate Chop down to the ball and it goes mountain climbing down the target line. The minute I have to Pivot, I keep worrying my leg imbalance will throw off my aim. If I could hit with a Pivot just letting the Power Package slide down with the shoulder on plane, not worrying about the thrust of # 3 pp, it seems much simpler. Instead of blasting my left arm off my chest, I roll down my right shoulder and Power Package to slice down on the ball sending it up and on target line.
With a swing, I just load up my left wrist and body snap it into the ball. As long as I take a practice swing and keep the ball in front of the Down point, it is mountain climbing time and scoring city.
Patrick
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Last edited by innercityteacher : 09-01-2010 at 10:49 PM.
If I start with Mid-Body Hands, Standard Address, and RFT to my END, and not move my hands a smidge, and simply Pivot all the way down, won't I be shooting # 3 pp straight at the inside quadrant of the ball by letting the right shoulder slide down plane?
This brings up an important point that ties into the necessity for Hands to Pivot.
The Hands and the Shoulders (specifically the Right Shoulder) are not on the same plane at Address. So they can not travel in the same direction to meet up on the Inclined Plane at Top, as they must. (If you want to Startdown with the Right Shoulder pulling the Hands downplane , swing from the feet, not startdown with the Hands , ground up downstroke sequence......a very good thing). They travel their own unique paths to get to their meeting place. Employing a Standard Shoulder Turn the Right Shoulder turns Flat Back and the Hands via the RFT , fanning and bending (right elbow) travel back , in and UP. That UP is critical.
Once united on the Inclined Plane at Top the Right shoulder takes the Hands Down the Inclined Plane BUT only to a point. From there they go their own way again. At impact the Right Shoulder and the Hands are no longer on the Inclined Plane together (even if you stay on the TSP as the Right Shoulder has moved off the TSP)
This entire bit of business serves one purpose , one critical alignment.......the onplane transport of the Hands in Startdown, by the Pivot, the Right Shoulder specifically which was pulled in term by the Hips etc etc. Something hacks dont achieve but good golfer do. Best practiced and learned with Startdown Waggles.
The pivot plays an important part but it is not boss. It should also be noted that Zone two is Power not zone 1.........ever see a catcher throw a bullet to 2nd base from his knees. Faldo and Knudson were great great golfers but neither was very long...........
In TGM terms,
My natural tendency is TSP in the backswing then shift to EP for the forward swing.
I tried different patterns but if I haven't played for a while I usually return to the above pattern.
74% Zone 1
20% Zone 2 (11% elbows, 9% shoulders)
6% Zone 3 (Wrists)
This are the average figures across 4 golfers on different skills level. Their power profiles varies very little.
As a curiosity, the table also shows that the left ancle and left knee does negative work. You have the cause of Tigers previous knee injury right there in black and white. So if you flare your front foot more open at address, the Zone 1 percentage is likely to increase.
In TGM terms,
My natural tendency is TSP in the backswing then shift to EP for the forward swing.
I tried different patterns but if I haven't played for a while I usually return to the above pattern.
Its in the book......Double shift, 10-7-B and see 10-23-B Angled Line.
As a side note, read the description of the procedure in the second paragraph of 10-23-B :
"From the Top -of-the Straight -Line hand position the Hands take a nearly vertical path to the Plane of the Elbow Angle before they start their drive directly at and through the Aiming Point (2-J-3)"
Then take a close look at the photo .....do you see that faint black , shadowy arrow that points at the ball? This arrow represents the Aiming Point concept graphically.
This "vertical drop" is also especially useful for golfers who get their Hands above a TSP at Top or End. In this situation since the Right Shoulder and the Hands are not on the same Inclined Plane any movement of the Right Shoulder in Startdown would pull the Hands down but also out over the plane. Hence the need to "drop" the Hands near vertically. It was a popular move back in the high hands days of the 1970's. The first generation of white belts with plaid pants.
74% Zone 1
20% Zone 2 (11% elbows, 9% shoulders)
6% Zone 3 (Wrists)
This are the average figures across 4 golfers on different skills level. Their power profiles varies very little.
As a curiosity, the table also shows that the left ancle and left knee does negative work. You have the cause of Tigers previous knee injury right there in black and white. So if you flare your front foot more open at address, the Zone 1 percentage is likely to increase.
Interesting stuff, Ill give it a read tonight, thanks.
I played with a 75 year old guy last week. He could barely walk, I had to help him in and out of bunkers for instance. As close to zero pivot as you could probably get.......but what a set of hands on the guy. He'd been playing for 60 years and you could tell. He could still hit it 200 off the tee.
Standing on one leg I can hit it pretty good. Some guys can hit it 250 off their knees.
If you took the arms totally out of the swing by lashing a club to your body in some manner.........how far could you hit it? I dont think very far. In essence, its a comparison of the speed of the Right Shoulder vs the Hands isnt it? You can get a little right shoulder into the ball even off your knees it should be noted.
Dont get me wrong, I think the Pivot is very important and adds tremendously to Power for sure but the Arms are the primary source of Power. Ill give it a read though ......I'm here to learn and improve thats all....which means making mistakes. Lots of em.
i feel like some of the originial issues have not been addressed. what role does the right shoulder and axis tilt play in an elbow plane swing, where do they go?, where do they point? what should they do if they are not guiding the shaft down plane as homer says right shoulder motion must not be haphazard.
Right shoulder points at the plane line AND the right forearm points at the plane line (just different planes). The difference between TSP and EP is the hands are not on the same plane as the right shoulder, thereby making it somewhat "hazardous".
Any shifting is hazardous for this reason.
Axis tilt in a pivot controlled hands procedure is critical, whereas its not quite as critical in a hands controlled pivot. Keep in mind with PCH you aren't really monitoring your hands, and doing very little tracing if any.
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