I was suggesting that the amount of right wrist bend is determined by what it takes to support a flat left wrist. Obviously ball position can change the amount of right wrist bend, but the left wrist is always ideally flat. As for having an arched left wrist (with accompaning increased right wrist bend) at impact...it can be useful if the push tendency is adjusted for.
Do you mean: Is it ok to Arch the Left Wrist? Absolutely. Late Release, it will be Arched. The amount of Bend in the Right Wrist is determined by BAll Position, Amount of Right Elbow Bend and how far ahead of the ball your hands are at impact, given a stationary head. Not everyone who trys a late release will have an arched left wrist. If your rate of accelleration is great, then the clubhead will catch up before your hands get too far ahead. It's possible and desireable for those with a Late Release to have a Flat Left Wrist at Impact. That would always be my goal. If you Arch the Left Wrist you Deloft the Clubface.
Thus perhaps explaining why I hit it relatively "low". Of course I play in Texas, so that is somewhat necessary.
One Truth:
When I see a picture of a Golfer at Release, and the Clubface is looking down at the Planeline, then I know he is using Simultaneous Release.
Hello Daryl,
Hope all is well.
Um, facing down the planeline, and you know its simulateous release? You sure? Really sure? The clubface alignment I believe, should not dictate, in any way, release motions. And please forgive me, I do have,nor have I read, TGM in over 2 years.
Release motions, from what I remember, are in respect to accumulators #2 and 3, and if I recall, Homer specifically mentions not to be distracted by clubface motion.
One step further.
Originally Posted by Daryl
One More Truth:
Most Pros cock both Wrists and use the muscles in their Forearms to HELP whack the ball. How much HELP depends on the Pro. Some more, some less. They know where impact is which means that they know where their hands, arms, body and Clubhead is at all times. Millions of swings and Millions of balls with Tons of Talent and remarkable Hand-eye coordination.
In my opinion, most pro's I know do not cock their right wrist, an incredible observation from Homer. No doubt remarkable hand/eye.
Originally Posted by Daryl
Another Truth:
If you get a Job at a Golf course, and play with the guys every day, and hit balls every day, and if you have a little talent and a little hand-eye coordination, then after two years you’ll be a scratch Golfer. If you have remarkable talent, then you may be able to play on the mini-tours.
I disagree. I can do anything with the best, baseball, etc etc. But I am not, and have not gotten to, and ALL of my friends (after a state championship baseball team) are not scratch. And, I hit as many balls as anyone for a 5 year period. Sorry, disagree.
We disagree on many points, which, does not mean I am right or you ar left......
Release Motions 4-D-0. Acc #2 is a Wrist Motion, #3 is Hand Motion. Sequencing the Uncocking of the Left Wrist (Wrist Motion) then Rolling the Clubface (Hands). Forgive me for stating the obvious, but if the Clubface is already square to the Plane Line (Facing the Ball during the Release) Then the Hands have been Rolled prior to (#3 before #2) Uncocking the Left Wrist. Possibly, your confusion comes from thinking that individual Wrist and hand motions and Pivot are the same thing. Allow me to explain. Stand erect with your right arm extended in front (palm facing the target and thumb pointed toward the Sky) of you at shoulder height and parallel to the ground. Move your arm and hand to the right until it is parallel to the base line of the inclined Plane. Your Hand is Turned because of the Pivot. Step 2, Stand erect with your right arm extended in front of you at shoulder height and parallel to the ground and Turn your Hand so that the Palm is facing up (Thumb is pointing Right). Move your arm and Hand to the right until it is parallel to the base line of the inclined plane. Your hand is Turned and “Turned”. Turned because the Pivot turned it and “Turned” because your hand rotated palm up. The first demonstration is what Hitters do, the second is what Swingers do (Standard Wrist Action). The Second way needs a Sequenced Release. The First example demonstrates that Pivot is Rolling the Hands while at the same Time (Simultaneously) the Left Wrist (and only the Left Wrist) is Uncocking.
I don’t know of any Pros that Keep their Right Wrist Level throughout the Swing. Who am I to say they are wrong? I’m not telling them how to earn a living. Please see JR1 Acquired Motion Video. Please notice that JR is hitting Beautiful and graceful pitch shots with only a five yard spread at 75 yards. Awesome for sure. He Cocks his Right Wrist on every shot. I’m not saying he should change. However, if you compare the trajectory of each shot, each shot is slightly different and some of them very different. But the result is still extremely impressive. He is using hand-eye coordination and Timing the Impact. Highly developed. His apparent Roll after Impact is due to the Pivot. JR is one of the finest Golfers in the World and to ever play the game.
My wife has dragged me around the Country on weekend trips for twenty-Five years. That means that I arrive at the Golf courses at 6:00 am with no-one to play with. Invariably, someone in the Proshop or bag room agrees to play with me. Almost all of the time, after the round, the conversation goes like this “How long have you been a scratch Golfer?”, he replies “before I started working here, I couldn’t play very well, but I go out with the guys almost every day after work and I hit balls all the time and I’ve gotten really better.” I reply “Oh, how long have you worked here?” and he replies, “two years” and I reply “Oh”. I should write a book on the subject but it would only be one page long.
Yoda, I promise not to make an issue of this during the next Seminar. I’ll shut up. I won’t be argumentative. You have the floor. It’s your Seminar.
So maybe the question should be . . . if the pros do in fact cock their right wrists and some do . . . what other components in the stroke allow them to get away with it?
Sweet! Another Bucket and Daryl "dust-up!" I have learned a great deal from the "dialogue" the two of you have shared Can't make an omelette without breaking (non-automatic hatching?) a few eggs!
I qualify under the "two year rule." I had absolutely no clue what I was doing but I had time and enthusiasm. I also lived in the southern hemisphere and had great weather. Unless you live in S. Cal, Florida, or Arizona you are a part-timer! I am watching a wintery-mix fall as we speak I was pretty decent at raquet sports, particularly squash (raquet ball without the ball on speed!) My handicap tumbled along with a lot of my like-minded-golf-obsessed buddies. I too cocked both wrists! During start down the counter clockwise motion in order to go clock-wise ala Bobby Jones was ALL eye-hand and a healthy dose of ignorance!
One of the reasons that people don't improve much is that it takes April-May just to thaw out...and their lack of TGM know how!
Cold in Oklahoma (where the wind does its thing using a straight line delivery path down the plane!)
So maybe the question should be . . . if the pros do in fact cock their right wrists and some do . . . what other components in the stroke allow them to get away with it?
First, I'd like to thank Okie for his support. Okie; thank you. Our experiences must be similar.
Mr. Bucket,
Think outside the box. They don't get away with it. The results of their tournaments don't look any different than the results of any weekly foursome all around the country. It's a crapshoot. Almost anyone of them can win at anytime. Look at their Fairways and G.I.R. Good but on the average nothing to write home about, but some weeks exceptional and others less than average.
Mr. Bucket, if you and I grabbed some Kentucky Fry and played a 5000 yard course, we should hit every fairway and 95% of the greens. You would think that a guy that does it for a living and gets free drinks, equipment, and stretching and massage therapy could do it regularly on a 7000 yard course. My, my? Maybe they aren’t getting away with anything.
The Truth may be (as if they knew any better), that they prefer cocking both Wrists and using their forearms to unload into the ball with simultaneous release, angled hinging and controlled Clubhead Throw-away. Perhaps they think that this procedure with hand-eye coordination and perseverance and torturously hard work will win out in the end. So far it has.
First, I'd like to thank Okie for his support. Okie; thank you. Our experiences must be similar.
Mr. Bucket,
Think outside the box. They don't get away with it. The results of their tournaments don't look any different than the results of any weekly foursome all around the country. It's a crapshoot. Almost anyone of them can win at anytime. Look at their Fairways and G.I.R. Good but on the average nothing to write home about, but some weeks exceptional and others less than average.
Mr. Bucket, if you and I grabbed some Kentucky Fry and played a 5000 yard course, we should hit every fairway and 95% of the greens. You would think that a guy that does it for a living and gets free drinks, equipment, and stretching and massage therapy could do it regularly on a 7000 yard course. My, my? Maybe they aren’t getting away with anything.
The Truth may be (as if they knew any better), that they prefer cocking both Wrists and using their forearms to unload into the ball with simultaneous release, angled hinging and controlled Clubhead Throw-away. Perhaps they think that this procedure with hand-eye coordination and perseverance and torturously hard work will win out in the end. So far it has.
But what the hell do I know anyway? Love ya man.
I don't know man . . . . let's reverse that a lil' bit . . . look at Sergio's scoring average it's like 69. On LONG courses with HARD pins. These guys are Sooooooooooooooo good. I know a cat that is a GREAT player. Played in college. Good golf swing . . . so good that he was on a TV commercial.
The Nationwide Tour has an event at his home course every year. He's played in the Pro Am several times. I asked him "What's the difference in their game and yours?" He said, "It's like the difference between me and a 10 handicapper." Now again this guy is GOOD . . . he's plus. So he can play golf. And he's like a 10 compared to dudes that arent' even IN THE BIG LEAGUES.
So maybe your example should be reversed . . . if me and you eat chicken and go play their 7000 yard course and the Pro eats chicken and goes and plays a 5000 yard course . . . what happens????
We had the Tarheel Tour at my home course. That Tommy 2 Gloves played . . . he shot a 61. Heck I shoot 61 on my course everytime I tee it up . . . after about 12 holes.
Point being . . . these guys that you speak of are in a different galaxy than us.
Why is that???
My answer is
A. THEY ARE TECHICIANS . . . THERE TECHNIQUE IS THE BEST . . . COCKED WRIST OR NOT COCKED.
B. They have talent.
I mean look at Justin Leonard. They measured that cat's driver swing speed. It was like 107. I can scare 107. But I can't scare Justin Leonard on no 5000 yard course or much less a 7000 yard course.
The reason these guys are good is because the have good alignments . . . PERIOD.
I have learned a great deal from the "dialogue" the two of you have shared
Can't make an omelette without breaking (non-automatic hatching?) a few eggs!
I was pretty decent at raquet sports, particularly squash (raquet ball without the ball on speed!) My handicap tumbled along with a lot of my like-minded-golf-obsessed buddies. I too cocked both wrists! During start down the counter clockwise motion in order to go clock-wise ala Bobby Jones was ALL eye-hand and a healthy dose of ignorance! 
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