LynnBlakeGolf Forums - View Single Post - Must See Videos > > > Thread: Must See Videos > > > View Single Post #93 10-12-2010, 09:20 PM Ringer Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11 Originally Posted by Yoda You're right: I am a D-Plane novice. I turned off quickly a few years back when a seminar speaker promoting it attempted to "prove" that Impact was really 'Outside-In' and not Inside-Out'. I get that. I don't know who would have said such a thing but it sounds like it wasn't explained quite properly. Basically just think for a second that Ben Hogan is setting up with the ball back in his stance relative to his right foot (it's the same relative to his left foot). This positioning of his body relative to the ball ensures a very steep, descending angle when striking the ball. Just as Homer said, the clubhead is moving down, out, and forward all the way to low point. So if Hogan strikes the ball while not yet achieving low point, wouldn't the resultant path be to the right of his plane line? THAT is what the D-Plane helps to understand. Homer said it too from what I gather, he just never jumped to this area of thinking. Admittedly though I am pretty stale on my knowledge of HK and TGM. He might have said something to this effect and I simply don't know it. Quote: Given the interest here and elsewhere, I'll learn more about it in the weeks ahead, relate it to the principles that have served me well for more than three decades, then draw my own conclusions. My main motivation for the exercise will be to determine if (and then how) I could use it to improve my teaching and, consequently, the results my students achieve. That's what any good teacher would hopefully do with new information. I used to be an old laws guy and I've turned around considerably because the evidence is just so overwhelming. It's FINALLY starting to get through to people that the clubface does way more to the initial direction than path does. Quote: Despite my D-Plane ignorance, I will attempt to answer your question. First, a few principles: 1. Unless manipulated in some fashion, Clubshaft length determines when a given Club will reach its Impact condition. Therefore, there is only one ‘Straightaway Point’ built into every golf club, i.e., only one place in the stance where Centrifugal Force alone will align that particular Clubface and Clubshaft correctly for Impact. I won't take issue with the usage of Centrifugal force because I know it's a reliable feel for people. I also agree that there is only one point along the path where it is straight. But I do think we can "U" out the arc a little at the bottom by leading with the hands through impact. I have also seen some people "counter roll" and block off shots trying to keep the face square to the target. Not at all ideal but it would be interesting to see what high resolution video would have to say about the face. Quote: 2. True Swingers have little choice here: They simply must move the ball backward or forward in the Stance until that precise location is achieved. Otherwise, because Centrifugal Force (unmanipulated) is indifferent to Ball Location, a more forward (of Straightaway Point) ball position will result in a Closed Clubface at Impact (Draws and Hooks), and a more aft location will produce an Open Clubface (Fades and Slices). All true but there is of course the possibility of a changed swing center from one swing to the next. On a perfect machine that never changes it's axis yes, but on a human I think there can be some nominal to gigantic axis shifting. Quote: 3. Manipulated Hands Swingers and Hitters can likewise move the ball up or back in the Stance, but they also have the option of using a single Ball Location and compensating via the Aiming Point Technique (6-E-2). Actually, these players can hit the ball dead straight from any Ball Location (and from any of the nine Plane Line-Stance Line-Target Line Combinations) simply by aligning the Clubface and Clubshaft at Fix (8-2), then returning the Flat Left Wrist to its Vertical-to-the-ground alignment at Impact (as opposed the theoretical configuration per 7-10, i.e., at Low Point). I concur. Quote: 4. Players employing the Flip Release (10-24-F) must also accommodate the Ball Location requirements dictated by Shaft length, but, since their Release is Body-related (always in the same place with regard to Body position), the Ball-related options (simply moving the ball within the Stance or manipulating the Aiming Point) are not available. Hence, they must ‘effectively’ move the ball without changing the Release point relative to the Body. This can be done only by Opening and Closing the Stance Line for the shorter and longer Clubs respectively. Honestly couldn't follow you on this one. I just didn't understand. Help me lift the fog if you don't mind. Quote: Now, to your point: Hogan’s Five Lessons illustrated a constant Ball Location (in relation to the Left Heel) and a varying Stance Line. [Actually, as the Stance narrows, the Ball Location varies considerably in relation to the Center of the Arm Swing, i.e., Left Shoulder.] To the extent he employed a truly constant Ball Location, he compensated (subconsciously) for its single Location using the Aiming Point procedure. There is no alternative: If the Ball is not in the correct place, then you must change where you aim the Thrust. As a Flat Left Wrist player with a definite Hinge Action and a Clubface aligned appropriately – in other words, a player not at all dependent on the one Straightaway Point of the True Swinger -- Hogan had no need to “align” (as you say) left or right of the Target with his Stance Line to compensate for the varying Clubshaft lengths. Further, the Stance Line itself governs only the degree of Pivot Motion and its freedom or restriction in either or both directions (10-12-0/A/B/C/D). Opening and Closing the Stance does not “align” the Stroke left or right of the target. This can be accomplished only by Rotating the Plane Line per 10-5-A, -D or -E. My guess is that, if Hogan were here, he would tell us he was referring to his Stance Line as an automatic governor of his Pivot Motion. In fact, he described exactly that on page 125 of his book. Certainly, at no time did he even begin to suggest that by opening and closing his Stance he was changing his Direction of Aim. Instead, in assuming the Stance Lines illustrated, he was promoting an unrestricted Backstroke Motion with the longer Clubs (for Power). With the shorter Clubs, his goal was a slightly restricted Backstroke Motion coupled with an unrestricted Follow-Through (for Accuracy). All of which has been known at least since the days of 'Old Tom' Morris. I appreciate the explanation. I certainly understand that Hogan was changing alignment for a feel he was trying to achieve with his pivot. Could it not be said though that it also coincidently helped him hit straighter shots through the set simply because the geometry worked in his favor by doing so? Sort of the "cherry on top". __________________ The 4 Jobs in golf 1. Environment - Gets in the way 2. Ball - Interacts with the environment 3. Club - Moves the ball in a specific way 4. Golfer - Swings the club I already paid good money for the first 3... Ringer View Public Profile Send a private message to Ringer Find all posts by Ringer