Dave,
I'm not interested in getting involved in this debate, discussion - I was only commenting on a very narrow topic area within one of Jeff's post- with no intent to have it reflect on any wider issue- pro or con.
If we were to interpret my post- if anything - I would think it would lean more in the direction of supporting your "apparent" viewpoint than it would the "oppositions" - so I am perplexed at the nature of your question to me.
Part of the problem that I see with this thread or posts to this thread is one of communication. Specifically, when you are describing movement let's assume you need to define 1) What the intent is, 2) What muscles are being used, 3) What sensations you are sensing while the movement is being made, 4) What it looks like through the video camera, 5) Where your focus or awareness is while making the movement, 6) etc. - these are all very different for the same movement.
For example, If I decide to Drive my hand/fist through Buckets skull- that doesn't mean that I'm using the fist muscles to do it- that just describes my intent. The muscles that create that motion of the hand might simply be the tricep muscle but of course that would not cause much damage so I'd probably use muscles throughout my body - some for movement, some for support of movement, etc. etc. On to what sensation I might be aware of while I was making the movement - Would that be my hand? no, you'd have greater sensations other places (Bucket can elaborate on this further). Would I individually feel every single muscle that is contracting-No, although they are.
In summary, it's important to understand the context in which you are looking at the movement. For example, in case someone were to read your question and assume that both your quotes were saying the same thing- certainly they are not in this regard : The Homer quote is saying that the Forearm is always driving - that's more of a third party observer comment - as if we were measuring the acceleration rate of the forearm and the Tomasello quote is more from the 1st perspective - the mover- the intent of the mover to drive the forearm or move the forearm. I only use that example to point out the different contexts that one needs to observe- it in no way is meant to separate out one as right and one as wrong.
If one were to want to make some progress or learn during a debate- one might ask questions to clearly understand the opposing view and one might want to clearly define their view for the opposing party. That way you create a platform for agreement to move forward. Hope that helps in some way.
For some reason I feel much better after posting this post- hmm... the only thing I could possibly feel better about would be if Bucket came over to play some cards- Bucket- where are you? Come on over - let's play a friendly game of cards- I've got those candy bars you like! I've got to go now - my Doctor Augusta Golf says I shouldn't be out this long without more medication.
Dude . . . . I got your medicine . . . after reading your last 3 posts . . . . drewitgolf has asked me to feed him the whole bottle . . . . open the hatch suferboy . .. .here comes a big tasty wave . . . . wipe out soon to follow . . .
We better get one of them forum sherrif types over here soon before they start dropping like flies. Yo Belle Starr can you please ban Mikey from posting in this forum . . . LBG may have some liability issues.
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