I have been Swinging not Hitting as my Pivot dragged me forward I would fire my right ELBOW/forearm AT THE TARGET NOT CROSS-LINE, giving me all sorts of extra power. But I have been Hitting my chips and sand shots.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I have been Swinging not Hitting as my Pivot dragged me forward I would fire my right ELBOW/forearm AT THE TARGET NOT CROSS-LINE, giving me all sorts of extra power. But I have been Hitting my chips and sand shots.
At least one of us is confused. Give me time to catch up, I got to get some work done(purely cosmetic). In the interim I ask you this, where is the target and direction of resultant thrust?
At least one of us is confused. Give me time to catch up, I got to get some work done(purely cosmetic). In the interim I ask you this, where is the target and direction of resultant thrust?
Bumpy
If you get work done, will you be less "Bumpy." I am teasing here and hope all your "work" goes smoothly, of course.
Every time I use the search function and seriously apply what I learn, my game improves, although I do not always see the exact reasons why.
Daryl explained to me that the curing bicep motion places my wedges so that my # 3 PP can be fired on plane with good effect. And sometimes, I just Hit with usually good effect, especially in sand and chip shots and shots within 100 yards.
Now I say "Hit" having just realized these last few days that the club traces from 7 to 1 o'clock or it is not a hit nor a 4 barrel hit.
But I often start from genuine Impact Fix and sort of always come from 7 to 1 these days with a big Pivot and, Bicep curl and right elbow thrust. It has become automatic with some nice results.
However, sometimes from Impact Fix, when I get tired, I simply Hula-Hula and hit my usual straight shot with a high fade or draw depending on my balance and ball position. Drive is about 240 down the middle.
As I said, though, I just realized that in my Swinging, I am not accelerating my hands DOWN and in my Hitting, I am not accelerating my hands OUT from 7 to 1. I guess I just thought shifting with my Hula and dropping my elbow down was some sort of swing. I now don't think it is based on my research into the right elbow drive.
So i have been Hitting a lot sort of unconsciously and saved by my proper Impact Fix position. Sometimes I Hit the ball to 1 o'clock and hit 300 yard plus drives with roll out and sometimes I am less effective in my strike and am saved by my Angle Hinge and Bent right wrist sending the ball down the middle with a playable fade.
I am going to sharpen my technique adding Hand Acceleration/Throw Out to my shoulder acceleration to get better club acceleration in Swinging and be more deliberate in my drive out to 1 o'clock in my hitting.
My elbows will remain at my side in putting and putting my chips, and the elbow will be driven in my sand shots, chips and pitches for now.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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Originally Posted by lagster
DISCUSS... "The Accumulator #3 motion must be accommodated in the Impact alignment or it will (with great loss of Power) produce a Quitting of the Hand motion and/or a Quitting of the Overtaking action in an effort to avoid Pulled shots. That wilted feeling of a "Blocked Out" Stroke is a tip-off of a faulty Approach Angle." (from 6-B-3-O)
This is an important and subtle point. We must examine four related areas inorder to make the proper connection according to Homer Kelley.
1. Impact Alignments
2. The #3 Accumulator
3. The Magic of the Right Forearm
4. Clubhead Line of Flight and the Visual Equivalents
Step One would be to examine Impact Alignments . . . Why?
2-J-1 IMPACT ALIGNMENTS The geometry of all alignments stems form the Impact geometry requirements. So, the first step in preparation for a Golf Shot is the establishment of the Impact Conditions
Note the word "preparation." The Machine is prep'ed where? At Fix. In regards to this discussion we are talking the preparation of taking the Grip at Impact fix with the Left Wrist facing down the Angle of Approach of the On-Plane Right Forearm.
It is here that the #3 Accumulator Angle is established. Per 6-B-3-0 . . .
Power Accumulator #3 is formed by the angle established between the Clubshaft and the Left Forearm. Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line – instead, it seeks to MAINTAIN its radial alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated Plane. So how do we establish our #3 Angle? We establish it at Impact (Fix) because this is where ALL Alignments originate.
So at Impact the Left Wrist is LEVEL right?
SO THE #3 ACCUMULATOR ANGLE (THE ANGLE BETWEEN THE LEFT ARM AND CLUBSHAFT) IS ESTABLISHED WHEN THE LEFT WRIST IS IN ITS LEVEL CONDITION (THE IMPACT/FIX CONDITION)
Now to get to the meat of your question . . .
Notice in the 6-B-3-0 quote the word MAINTAINED is captalized. Homer is effectively screaming this word at us. And he also says that #3 "Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line""
So the #3 Accumulator is STATIC. It is the Angle between the Left Arm and Clubshaft that you ROLL through Impact. And remember the Left Wrist is LEVEL at Impact not UNCOCKED. It is uncockING but not Uncocked.
Now how in the world is this related to the Magic of the Right Forearm? Well per 6-B-3-0 . . . The “On Plane” Right Forearm ALWAYS establishes and maintains the correct Clubshaft-Left Arm angle through Release and Impact. See 7-3.
And again in 6-B-3-1 . . .
The Clubhead may appear to move in a an arc around and outside the Hands when related to the Left Arm – the very basic Left Arm Flying Wedge. But when related to the Right Forearm, it appears to move “On Plane” with the Right Forearm, at its normal rigid angle (Bent Right Wrist) – the Right Forearm Flying Wedge.
Now let's move on to 7-3 Strokes Basic . . . Per 7-3 Right Elbow Position is very much related to the MAINTAINING #3 Accumulator Angle:
7-3 STROKES – BASIC Because of the dominant role of Accumulator #3 (6-3-B-0, 2-N, 2-P), Golf Strokes are very dependent on the Right Elbow activity deriving from its location and the nature of the subsequent Right Arm participation.
So the On-Plane Right Forearm has TONS AND TONS of Magic. For one it has it's on procedure established at Fix. The Right Forearm Angle of Approach. This is the position of the Right Forearm taken at FIX. And if the Right Forearm is RETURNED PRECISELY TO THIS POSITION THE #3 ACCUMULATOR WILL BE MAINTAINED.
But remember per 2-F:
The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high – pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.
And how does the Right Forearm relate to the disruption of the #3 Angle? Per 7-3 . . .
Furthermore, in compliance with 6-B-3-0-1, Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist with out Bending, Flattening or Cocking the Right Wrist. Practice this first at Impact Fix. So, the Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact (6-C-0) per 1-L-9. All this you will come to know as the MAGIC OF THE RIGH FOREARM.
So the Right Forearm can DESTROY Rhythm if it is not precisely brought back to its Angle of Approach. Precision Clubface Control is the Left Hand's responsiblity but the Right Arm can destroy #3 which is Rhythm which is Hinge Action which is Clubface Control.
Even with the Pitch Basic Stroke. So the Right Forearm must leave – and precisely return to – its own Fix Position (7- “Angle of Approach” (regardless of the true Clubhead Angle of Approach) because both procedures will produce identical Clubhead Delivery Lines.
And for MORE Magic as it relates to this topic. Back to 7-3 . . .
. ALWAYS, for all procedures, the Right Forearm is position “On Plane” – pointing at the Plane Line as the Angle of Attack (2-N). The On Plane Right Forearm shows the precise up-and-down direction it and the Clubshaft must take throughout the Stroke (2-J-3). The “Angle of Approach” position of the Right Forearm shows the precise Cross-Line direction the Forearm must take through Impact. It, thereby, precisely locates the visual Impact Point – where the eye must direct the Pressure Point #3 – the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. Remember, the Actual Angle of Approach of the Clubhead is determined by Ball Position (2-N) so the Cross Line position of the Right Forearm is ONLY the On Plane Forearm Thrust per 1-L-9/10/11.
The Magic here is the On-Plane Right Forearm at Fix SHOWS you the Cross-Line direction of Thrust be it muscle power of the Right Tricep in Hitting or CF in Swinging. Thrust is ALWAYS Cross-Line. So another disruptor of the #3 Angle is not going ALL THE WAY DOWN and ALL THE WAY OUT.
If the target of your Thrust is the GREEN not only will your Left Wrist BEND but you will ALSO DESTROY THE #3 ACCUMULATOR ANGLE AND THEREBY DESTROY RHYTHM AS WELL. So it is important in any procedure that YOUR target is the green but YOUR CLUBHEAD'S TARGET IS THE BALL. Or even better the PLANE LINE.
This is where that Wilted Feeling comes from.
That's all I got to say on that . . .
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#3
11-14-2006, 12:20 PM
KOC
Senior Member
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Low Point?
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
YOUR CLUBHEAD'S TARGET IS THE BALL. Or even better the PLANE LINE. .
Shall it be the low point?
#7
11-14-2006, 02:42 PM
12 piece bucket
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Basically it boils down to this . . .
The #3 Accumulator is the angle set between your left arm and clubshaft. You make it when you grip the club. The #3 angle is set when your left wrist is flat AND LEVEL. So if you put the club in the CUP of your left hand #3 is zero. If you grip it under the heel pad you have established the angle. More is not always better in this regard. Just a little under the heel pad is fine.
The #3 Accumulator is STATIC or tries to be. You want to ROLL that angle through impact as you employ your hinging.
But the Right Forearm can SUPPORT the Rolling of #3 or DESTROY it. So that is why it is important to have your right forearm come back to its On-Plane position at Fix.
If it comes in too high . . . #3 will be compromised. You will not have that angle to roll through the ball and your Left Wrist will be Uncocked and not LEVEL as it should be at Impact. Power and precision are sacrified.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-01-2012 at 11:17 PM.
What I understand all this to mean is that starting at Impact Fix, I MUST carry back my hands from 7 o'clock and drive out my right elbow cross line to 1 o'clock to hit through the ball with a slight hip bump allowing the right elbow to drive freely to 1 o'clock before slinging the right forearm to right field.
When Swinging, my Pivot drag loads the wedges/gyroscope before releasing/accelerating my right arm throw which accelerates the club DOWN vertically un-cockingtracing the base line of the plane and back up the face of the plane with the forward swivel.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-01-2012 at 11:35 PM.
Importance of Setting the club face open or closed is real as is ball position!
Right Elbow and PP # 3 cross-line produces a real fade unless adjusted and Right Elbow straight down followed by hand acceleration (throwing it DOWN) produces a real draw. Dropping my elbow Down and accelerating my hands produces a straight ball or a nice power fade.
Keeping my elbows tucked in for putting and putting chips keeps shots on line PROVIDED I READ THE LINE! DURRR!
A day full of bogies = 86 with three doubles on a par 72! as I was mechanics oriented, not line oriented!
I'm Swinging as a basic pattern now and will see how low I can go with good short game tools! But once I figure out the correct Hitting ball positions watch out! Those hits can really travel!
HCP index at 10.9
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-04-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by ChrisNZ
But if the left palm is on the plane, and the left shoulder is not, then neither is the left arm, hence there must be an angle between the palm and the arm - how can the left wrist be flat?
Or is it to do with the subtle anatomy of the hand (I must look like an idiot sitting here at my desk cocking my wrist up and down - my wife is always telling me to stop forming golf grips and the like when we're in public together!)
Thanks,
Chris
Imagine you are rolling your left arm up and down a plane board the would rest under your upper arms at address. You are 'hugging' the plane, the wheel, - clapping your hands on it. Rotation takes place around this point if you turn and roll the forearms, back and through. Hitters tend to resist the natural 'roll' caused by the clubs design, and keep the back of the left hand more perpendicular to the plane in 'feel'. A frisbee toss motion for example. See the drills section for a few more examples.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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Inside-Out, Inside-Aft And Tracing
Originally Posted by DDL
However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.
Am I on the right track that:
1) the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball, and that
2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.
Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.
DDL,
I reprinted from your post the Quote below. My answers appear in bold.
************************************
1. However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.
There is a difference between the Inside-Out Impact that is characteristic of all On Plane Downstrokes and the Inside-Out Stroke wherein the Clubhead actually crosses the Line of Flight per 10-5-E. The latter should be avoided unless:
-- The player is deliberately attempting to produce a Draw or Hook;
-- The player is deliberately employing the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure (2-J-3). In this instance, he will erect an Inclined Plane whose baseline is 'out to right field' (10-5-E Closed Plane Line) and then 'Cover' -- not Trace -- that Line with his Clubhead.
2. Am I on the right track that:
-- the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball...
Thrust is directed at the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball only when the player is (a) monitoring the (Cross-Line) Delivery Path (of the Hands per 10-23); or (b) is employing the Hitter's (Cross-Line) Angle of Approach procedure. Otherwise, Swingers (and Hitters) monitoring the (On Line) Geometric Plane Line (the Straight Line Baseline of the Inclined Plane per 2-J-3) should direct Thrust directly at the back of the Ball. In all instances the Thrust is directed by the Tracing Right Forearm and Forefinger (#3 Pressure Point).
2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.
Hinge Action is independent of Plane and Power. Any Hinge Action can be executed on any Inclined Plane and with any one or combination of Power Accumulators.
Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.
You must think in terms of the Three-Dimensional Attack Angle, i.e., the player's view from above the Plane's surface. As the player Traces (with his Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point) the Straight Line Baseline of the Plane (Forward movement), the Clubhead is simultaneously moving toward the Plane Line (Down and Out movement). Hence, both the Line of Flight of the Clubhead and the motion of the Right Forearm are Three-Dimensional (2-N-0).
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Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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why would it be trouble, that was hogans bread and butter he just weakened his grip so his left thumb was pointing straight down the shaft that made it so it always approached the ball a little open. but if you have a strong grip with horizontal hinging thats a different story then you would just have to open the face at address enough so it would never fully square up at impact
#8
04-24-2005, 09:16 PM
6bmike
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Originally Posted by Bigwill
Quote:
Traveling without the book and/or not having multiply copies is a sin, Will.
I know, I know... .
It seems like hitting a fade using horizontal hinging is asking for trouble. Is it?
BTW, thanks, Mike
Not trouble, Will- knowledge ! Every time a machiner moves the ball location, grip, plane lines, hinge action, etc- they own another mechanism in their stroke. And that’s a good thing for TGM-ers.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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Right Arm Practice For Swingers
Originally Posted by rchang72
Yoda, in the video, you talk about directing the lag pressure down with the #3 pressure point. This may be beating a dead horse, but how does the swinger do this with that the right hand only like you were demonstrating? Or should the swinger practice that with only their right hand?
Normally, the Pivot Loads the Swinger's Lag Pressure on the Rotated #3 Lag Pressure Point -- the first knuckle of the Right Hand. Centrifugal Force then supplies the Thrust of the Stroke, the Direct Drive of the #2 Accumulator (the Left Wristcock) through the #2 Pressure Point (the last three fingers of the Left Hand). However, that Centrifugal Thrust is sensed as Clubhead Lag Pressure and aimed by the #3 Pressure Point -- via its straight line thrust -- down the Delivery Path and toward the Plane Line.
I absolutely endorse practicing that move with the Right Arm only, first without a Club and then with one. At the Top, mentally draw a straight line from the #3 Pressure Point to the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. Then, as your Downstroke Pivot Loads the Lag in Start Down, feel as though your Right Hand remains at the Top of the Stroke. Finally, with your Right Hip Cleared and the Lag Loaded, direct your Thrust directly down that Line and through your Aiming Point (usually the Ball). Once you've got the move down pat, practice with both Hands.
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Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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