Jimbo,
When I first started seeking help, I was taught to be a swinger with an angled hinge action. My grip was never addressed and my left hand was very turned (strong) and bent. Furthermore, I was also taught to flatten my left wrist at the top of the swing or "end." Needless to say, I could hook a SW about 50 yards. All of this resulted in a "hold on for dear life" feel coming into impact to prevent the ball from putting on it's left turn signal. Most of my shots were hooks and pushes. The results were strictly dependent on my ability to keep the clubface from closing.
With all of that garbage in my past, I've become much more robotic. My body is extremely quiet. I feel as though my legs are stuck in concrete, almost zero pivot feel. My forearm is placed on plane as described in 7-3. I focus very much on extensor action as listed in 12-3, in most of my practice sessions. After the taking up of the slack (a slight bump in the startdown that loads #4), I try to drive the #1 pressure point into the ground. When I begin my practice sessions I'll monitor my hinge action in some basic strokes. I'll go to both arms straight a few times and hit some very low trajectory punch shots. With my past considered, angled hinging feels normal to me. Keeping my body from continuing to rotate did not feel normal. If the #1 pressure point is truly driving through impact, the #4 pressure point is being relieved of any pressure. In other words, #1 is pushing the left arm off the chest. That's why you can't be pulling and pushing at the same time.
Additionally, I never question someone's feel, but I will use video to find if "feel is real." The video never lies.
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Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
I too hardly Pivot with the RFT, but I have to keep my left wrist flat and not rolling over my back shoulder (shorter RFT), then the slight bump to load PP # 4 (front shoulder) and then drive PP #1 (left thumb) down, crossline, to the inside aft of the baby-powder infused ball! Then a puff of smoke as it obliterates!
Fairways and greens, putt when possible, putt my chips, and elbow plane pitches!
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Yoda does not recommend the closed-closed variation for hitting. I have talked to him, and he will comment further in this thread.
Regarding my personal square-open combination, the TGM player can change any stroke component to create a different result. Because of my open stance (10-5-B), I automatically create a Delayed Pivot (10-12-C). In other words, I have created a restricted backstroke (relative to the Free Turn of 10-12-A) and a free follow-through.
It gives me a very robotic feel, as if my legs are stuck in concrete. I almost have a zero pivot feel.
Your preference for Square-Open has my attention, Ted.
Quote:
The Stance Line will affect only the degree of Pivot Motion during the Backstroke Turn or Follow-Through (10-12). It should never affect the Plane Line.
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Yoda
No Pivot, RFT, Extensor Action, drive #1 PP, read the greens from front and back! lol
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 04-26-2012 at 09:21 AM.
Hitting a draw or a hook! It seems to me that I can hit a hook by sliding Impact Fix well forward of usual. In my waggle, the farther forward the Impact Fix, the more the club-face will close through the ball as the right arm must shorten. I can also slide the ball back for a push-draw, to my way of thinking.
Drawing The Ball
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So maybe i can hit a natural draw with the hitting stroke simply by playing it back a bit?
John
Yes, John, you can produce a 'natural Draw' when Hitting (or 'Manipulated Hands' Swinging) simply by playing the Ball back a bit -- provided you (1) align the Clubface Closed to the Flight Line per 2-J-1 and (2) Rotate your Grip per 7-2. You can do the same thing as a True Swinger by Rotating your Plane Line. Opposite procedures are employed to Fade the Ball.
There are not enough words to properly explain and telegraph into your brain what I've just said. Therefore, we will soon produce a video to collectively explain and demonstrate these relatively simple procedures...for the first time in the history of Golf Instruction.
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Yoda
More work needed.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I've got a copy of an instruction book Lee Buck wrote. It's now out of print. He actually advises closing the clubface at address. I would say based on what he said in his book that he played from a 10-5-B Square-Open stance. He said he intentionally took it back outside the Target Line but then his Downstroke was down the target line. He said by doing this he had the clubface looking at the target longer than anybody in golf.
Also, he played with what looks like to me a 10-2-D grip. Mr. K says with this grip "The palm of the Right Hand moves toward Impact exacly like a paddle-wheel rotating On-Plane - no separate Rolling Motion until after Impact." This is Angled Hinging. Lee described himself as a "blocker" on his Golf Channel thing.
Check out the post that Yoda did on the Impact Bag. Look at the picture of Lee post impact. No rolling there. If you can find any swing sequences on Lee, his Backstroke is definitely to Top and not End. Watch how his Right Forearm Wedge stays solid and how his Right Shoulder is driven down plane. Check out follow through. In 1-L, "The Club starts up-and-in after "Low Point" but the thrust continues Down Plane during Follow-Through." Not many got this better than Lee Buck.
Sometimes when I've hit a loose shot, I simply lock out my RFFW, Impact Fix, RFT to Top, drop the wedge on the ball with the back elbow leading. Oops, I'm down the middle again!
Thanks, 12 Piece!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 04-26-2012 at 10:01 AM.
Okay, Armourall2, we've got it going now, so let's you and me climb aboard thestarship The Golfing Machine and "head out to the South Channel,past Rocky Neck, Ten Pound Island."
Since your question relates to generating Power, we'll head due southtoward The Principles (Chapter 2) and the Emerald Isles, TheGenerators (2-M-3 and 2-M-4).
To clear the confusion regarding the first sentence in the post quote you'vesupplied, study the first sentence of 2-M-3:
"Unless Pivot Thrust actually drives #4 Accumulator through Impact,its assignment during that interval is more clearly defined if considered asdelivery, guidance and support of the Power Package, because it may or may nothave contributed anything but motion during Delivery"
And now lets "get past Niles Pond," and examine the Principle behindthe Hitter's classic Three Barrel application of Power in 2-M-4:
"...consider Pivot Thrust...as supplying the initial acceleration ofthe Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with PivotSpeed PLUS Right Triceps speed."
Taking these two Principles together, we can see that for a Hitter toactually accomplish a Four Barrel Stroke (which by 10-4-D definition means thatall four Accumulators are functioning -- in their defined powerapplications (6-B-1, 2, 3, and 4) as opposed to simply providingmotion (per 7-4 below). This means that the Pull of CentrifugalForce generated by #4 -- and not the Push of muscular thrustgenerated by #1 -- must power the Club through Impact.
Should #1's Pushing Muscular Thrust manually override #4'sPulling Centrifugal Force, then all bets are off. Yourintended Four Barrel plan will have disintegrated into a Three Barrelcombination, and in so doing will have no doubt created severe disruptions inthe (G.O.L.) Force!
What has happened is that the Swinging (Pulling) Good Guys have beenoverrun by the Thrusting (Pushing) Bad Guys, and consequencely yourTotal Motion (12-5-3) has now been compromised. The introduction of conflictingComponent Variations -- conflicting in the sense that they are notcompatible either with each other or with the type of thrust beingused, i.e. a Push or a Pull, or both -- has resulted in anincongruous Pattern of Variations that are, at best, Incompatible and,at worst, Non-Interchangeable. And per Chapter 13, the only optionsavailable in this sad state are "correction, compensation, or compassion."
These conflicting Variations may include, for example, Hinge Action (7-10),Left Wrist Action (7-1, Lag Loading (7-19), Trigger Type (7-20), PowerPackage Assembly Point (7-21), Power Package Loading Action (7-22) and PowerPackage Release (7-24). Review the Basic Stroke Patterns of 12-1(Hitting) and 12-2 (Swinging), and research their respective Variations inChapter 10. Study The Flail in 2-K and the Power Package inChapter 6. Only then will you come to understand that in G.O.L.F. as in life,"One man's milk is another man's poison." Like Love and Marriage,some things just go together. Or not!
But be patient. By nature's design, the process of assimilation is slow,sometimes painfully slow. Per Chapter 3 (Component Translation), assimilationrequires Study Time, Practice Time and Playing Time . Andper Chapter 13 (The Computer, or more specifically in this case, TheIncubator), also the Fourth Horseman, Calendar Time .
Those who stay with it, soon understand why Homer chose the name Starin naming his System of G.O.L.F.. Each element was hard-won: At first only a "scintillationof distant truth" and only later a dependable ally in the pursuitof Golfing Perfection; namely, The Star System Triad (as described inthe Preface).
We're almost home now, so let's "blow your airhorn and throw a wave to thelighthouse keeper's kid on Thatcher Island." In 7-4, we find the followinggem:
"It may appear that some of the Accumulators omitted from somecombinations are still actually present in the Action. But their participationis negligible, incidental or minimal."
And that brings us full circle to the first Principle referenced in this post:For Hitters attempting a Four Barrel Combination, unless the Pivot Thrust isactually Pulling the #4 Accumulator through Impact -- the Swinger'snormal Centrifugal Pulling application -- then, per the secondPrinciple, the Pivot Thrust is more correctly considered to be the"launching pad" for the Hitter's normal Muscular Pushingapplication. In that instance, though the Shoulder Turn Thrust appears (andactually is) active, it is only giving initial speed to the Hitter's PowerPackage (with its Bent and Loaded Right Arm).
Just because one can observe the motion of the thrusting Shoulder, itdoes not follow that the Shoulder is actually activating the #4 Accumulator.Think of the Action as the sequenced stages of a rocket launch: In Stage 1, theRight Shoulder is providing the initial acceleration of the PowerPackage (in addition to its normal "delivery, guidance and support"functions). In Stage 2, the now flying, Loaded Power Package takes over andfinishes the job. It is the classic one-two punch, and it is best accomplishedwith Three Accumulators (#1, #2, and #3), not four.
So finally, "The sun hits ya and the fog clears, head North,open up to 12, steamin' now. The guys are busy, you're in charge.Ya know what?"
You're a G.O.L.F.er! Is there anything better in the world?
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 04-26-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Taking the antibiotic twice a day very nauseous, barely stayed on the course for the round no score to report. Tee shots were easy but no clue or energy after that.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Taking the antibiotic twice a day very nauseous, barely stayed on the course for the round no score to report. Tee shots were easy but no clue or energy after that.
ICT
Quote:
Hitting Help
From what I see and from what you've said so far, Comet is giving you good advise.
Couple of pointers on Hitting -
For hitting, try a 10-2-D grip. It's a strong grip but perfect for angled hinging because it facilitates the simultaneous uncock/roll very well.
Rather than trace the plane line, you will take a more closed line to the ball and one way to set this up is at address is:
In your address position move your right elbow a little more toward your side rather than in front of your left hip. You are going to use a push basic stroke. Looking down at your right forearm, you will see the path that your hands will take up and back down. Follow that line with your hands for your backstroke and downstroke. You can pre-clear your right hip at address to make room for your hands to move up at startup.
Take a slow startdown and at your release point, straighten your right arm as hard as you want. Use your stationary right shoulder as a backstop when you start pushing. The primary focus for pushing is your #1 pressure point. Use the palm of your right hand to drive the base of your left thumb through impact.
This is the easy stuff, the hard part is keeping your right wrist bent through impact. Don't allow the right wrist to flatten until you are into your follow-through.
There is a lot more in hitting to learn about. The advise on this site in the Hitting section is the best anywhere because Ted and others know how to execute a Hit stroke. I only used it for a year, but got a big whiff of it.
Best wishes on your Hitting journey and enjoy the laser guided rockets you'll be launching.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Etzwane, the whole Hitting thing is such a revelation! This week I am using the Titlelist ZB's reg/stiff as opposed to my clone Callaway's. I give up some distance but the accuracy of the club is breath-taking!
Thanks to Kev Carter for turning me onto these sticks. Wherever I aim the blade is where the ball goes! Put my 10 year old senior shafted Adams Red-Line Back in my bag and it seems to love Hitting too as do my hybrids and old Adams 2 wood w/senior shaft.
240-Driver
210-220- 2 wood
200-2 hybrid
185-3 hybrid
180-4 iron
175-5 iron
165-6 iron
150-7 iron
145-8 iron
130-9 iron
110-PW
90-SW
I wonder if I put a senior shaft in the ZB?s
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 05-04-2012 at 11:59 AM.
ZB's in the bag = online shots -10 yards and an 86
Originally Posted by innercityteacher
Etzwane, the whole Hitting thing is such a revelation! This week I am using the Titlelist ZB's reg/stiff as opposed to my clone Callaway's. I give up some distance but the accuracy of the club is breath-taking!
Thanks to Kev Carter for turning me onto these sticks. Wherever I aim the blade is where the ball goes! Put my 10 year old senior shafted Adams Red-Line Back in my bag and it seems to love Hitting too as do my hybrids and old Adams 2 wood w/senior shaft.
240-Driver
210-220- 2 wood
200-2 hybrid
185-3 hybrid
180-4 iron
175-5 iron
165-6 iron
150-7 iron
145-8 iron
130-9 iron
110-PW
90-SW
I wonder if I put a senior shaft in the ZB?s
ICT
The ZB's are accurate and feel like buttah! I guess when I play I slow down my speed. One or 2 clubs short all day and dead online!
New Hitting insight!
Quote:
Though I'm not a hitter this is a really good point. I finally figured out that often my left wrist is not level at address or impact. Getting it level (at least I think it is) has helped a lot, I can get my right forearm on plane now I'm hitting the ball almost as long as before my tinkering while I feel I'm really only using about 50% effort (compared to always trying to knock the snot out of the ball.......helps get to uncocked and max. lever extension).
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 05-08-2012 at 02:12 PM.
Linear Mode
