Impossible to "swing" a short shot? - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Impossible to "swing" a short shot?

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Old 07-17-2009, 09:21 AM
ronaaronson ronaaronson is offline
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Impossible to "swing" a short shot?
The first move of the downswing is a lateral shift of the left hip towards the target with the head staying back. This action causes the right shoulder to turn down plane. This turning shoulder is actually a pushing force against the left arm whose subsequent motion results, at least in a full swing, in a longitudinal pull on the end of the golf club -- much in the same way that a horse pulls a carriage by pushing on its harness. But on a short chip shot, where the club is only moving back a small distance and there is not much of a wrist cock so that the club does not depart radically from vertical, it does not seem to me that this pivot action can possibly result in accelerating the club longitudinally. The shoulder turning down plane seems to me to be applying a pushing force radially across the shift. If you wish instead to shift focus to the left arm powering the chip in a pivot-less stroke, I can see how the club is being moved by pulling -- but pulling radially!. If you were to pull longitudinally on this nearly vertical club shaft, you would simply be raising it vertically from the ground in a straight line with centrifugal force playing no part. Thus I conclude that all "small" shots cannot be utilizing the Rope Handle Technique and is thus not "swinging".

Can somebody point out the errors of my way?

Also, the last sentence of the first paragraph of 10-19-C DRAG LOADING:

Then further acceleration can be applied only at Pressure Point #1 to support the Pull on the Clubshaft -- especially for Short Shot Power.

Wouldn't this acceleration be radial and pushing ("switting")?
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:35 AM
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by ronaaronson View Post
Thus I conclude that all "small" shots cannot be utilizing the Rope Handle Technique and is thus not "swinging".
For shots that don't cock turn the Left Wrist, you're pushing or pulling a Primary Lever. The Left Arm and Clubshaft become unified. Therefore, there is no secondary Lever to propel through impact.


You can't push a Rope. A horse is pushing on the harness but is Pulling the cart.

When the force moving a weight is in front of the weight, it's called pulling (Swinging). If the force is behind the weight it's called pushing (Hitting).
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:47 PM
ronaaronson ronaaronson is offline
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Hey, it was I who said that a horse is pulling the cart even though he is pushing on the harness; this I get. But my issue is not so much whether one is pushing or pulling, but rather whether one is accelerating the club longitudinaly (like an arrow drawn from a quiver) or pushing (or even pulling) radially across the shaft. It seems to that with less than full shots, it is more like the latter and that centrifugal force, which is central to swinging, plays no role.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:23 PM
EdZ EdZ is offline
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In a short shot, gravity is a key part of the equation. Short shots can absolutly be 'swung', with the #4PP and the CF created by the 'falling' club. This requires greater clubhead travel than a hitter might use for the same shot, but has the big advantage of a more consistent force (gravity).

See Ken Venturi chipping for just how much the pivot does on short shots
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:28 AM
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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How short a Stroke?

I was swinging short chip shots, about 3-5 feet ball travel with a little Hip Action the other day. I needed #1 Pressure for rigidity but there's no doubt that the Primary Lever was Pulled. Any shorter of a stoke and I'd be putting.

Last edited by Daryl : 08-03-2009 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:52 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Originally Posted by ronaaronson View Post
Hey, it was I who said that a horse is pulling the cart even though he is pushing on the harness; this I get. But my issue is not so much whether one is pushing or pulling, but rather whether one is accelerating the club longitudinaly (like an arrow drawn from a quiver) or pushing (or even pulling) radially across the shaft. It seems to that with less than full shots, it is more like the latter and that centrifugal force, which is central to swinging, plays no role.

Im thinking that for Basic Motion, common Putting say, it is, of course, pure radial force. (Although the straight back, straight through putters could be said to be employing linear force).

The pp#3 in its strong, aft, first joint on the index finger throughout. As opposed to the knuckle, the Drag Loading "arrow from quiver" position. That said, I suppose you could be on huge double green somewhere and need some float loading say but............that is not Basic Motion anymore either.

The difference between Hitting and Swinging putts, chips to my mind lies in whether or not you are "actively" extending your right arm.

Swinging putting uses the right shoulder (for TGM practitioners anyways) the shoulders for other, to power the putt. Zone 1.

Hitting putting typically, ideally, zeros out the Zone 1, shoulder participation and relies instead on Zone 2, active right arm extension. Arnie and the golfers of yesteryear employed Zone 3 putting. A pure hands only stroke.

So one source of power for such short shots and no need to accelerate longitudinally as the club doesnt get that far back. Its a pure Hinge Action stroke, no cocking , no swivel. Basic as opposed to Total Motion or Acquired even.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 08-03-2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:19 PM
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by O.B.Left View Post
The difference between Hitting and Swinging putts, chips to my mind lies in whether or not you are "actively" extending your right arm.

Swinging putting uses the right shoulder (for TGM practitioners anyways) the shoulders for other, to power the putt. Zone 1.

Hitting putting typically, ideally, zeros out the Zone 1, shoulder participation and relies instead on Zone 2, active right arm extension. Arnie and the golfers of yesteryear employed Zone 3 putting. A pure hands only stroke.

So one source of power for such short shots and no need to accelerate longitudinally as the club doesnt get that far back. Its a pure Hinge Action stroke, no cocking , no swivel. Basic as opposed to Total Motion or Acquired even.
Hmm? not bad. Great approach to the question. That's the answer. Why couldn't we all see it that way?
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:14 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Im just regurgitating, you can do it with the same info later, if you want. I wont let on.

Where would be without Yoda? WWBWY?

Last edited by O.B.Left : 08-03-2009 at 10:17 PM.
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