Plane Shifts

[Daryl]

1-L-18 " Changing the Plane Angle has no effect on the Plane Line".

Ah, Truth.

You can "think" or "believe" or "have your procedure" be tracing but if you got a dookyball pivot forget about it.

.... I promise you Eldrick is very aware of his hands . . . but that ain't overcoming all that bobbing and standing up. Forces too strong to over come.

Ah, more Truth.

So, you can still trace the Plane Line with Pivot Controlled Hands. Just, not as easily.

As always, Great Pics Bucket.

[O.B.Left]

Hmmmm. If you're tracing can you still have Pivot controlled Hands? I'm guessing no. Im also getting confused, which is kind of normal.

[O.B.Left]

Ok I just realized the 1-L-18 animation didnt make the move to the new format.


Here is an Einstein like mind experiment to try to illustrate it conceptually.

-Imagine a square shaped, school type wall clock.
-take it down off the wall and snap off the hour and minute hands, leaving only the second hand.
-the clock face is the plane and the second hand represents the clubshaft. You can adjust the second hand or shaft with the knob on the back of the clock so it swings back and through in golf like fashion.
-you place the bottom edge of the clock on a table angled at 90 degrees to the table top to start.
-As the shaft swings back and through one end of it always points at the Base Line/ Plane Line except when the shaft is parallel to the Plane Line.
-Ok now tilt the clock back onto an address like elbow plane angle. Start swinging the shaft back as if in Startup by turning the knob and increase the plane angle to a Turned Shoulder Plane or what ever you wish at Top. Then return it to the Elbow Plane or what ever as the shaft approaches release.
-the shaft or second hand always points at the plane line, the change in Plane Angle (or Shift if you will) had no effect on the plane line. The clock face is the Plane. The shaft travels "The Plane", their relationship is fixed despite the Plane Angle changes.
-to be "off plane" is to have one end of the shaft not pointing at or tracing the plane line, base line. Say you move the bottom edge of the clock on the table top. A separate deal to Plane Angle changes.

[Daryl]

Hmmmm. If you're tracing can you still have Pivot controlled Hands? I'm guessing no. I'm also getting confused, which is kind of normal.

Is this about training your hands to comply with the pivot you were born with, vs training your Pivot to provide an Acceleration Sequence while not disturbing the Alignments known to the Hands. Position Golf vs Alignment Golf?

Position Golf has had a 300 year head start. The normal tendency for Golfers is Position Golf. Reaching for a glass of water may be a great example of Hands Controlled Pivot, but put a golf club in the hands of the average Human, and he couldn't hit a volley ball off a tee. Then he's told to swing his arms with his Pivot, and BAM, instantly the Position Golfer is Born.

I'm pretty sure that after a long time, the hands of dedicated Golfers become educated and many may sense that they're tracing the Plane-line or at least aiming toward the ball.

I don't know. This would be a Good Question to ask Brian Gay. "When you first heard of Plane-Line Tracing, did it sound like something new? or is it something you had always done?"

[Daryl]

Ok I just realized the 1-L-18 animation didnt make the move to the new format.


Here is an Einstein like mind experiment to try to illustrate it conceptually.

-Imagine a square shaped, school type wall clock.
-take it down off the wall and snap off the hour and minute hands, leaving only the second hand.
-the clock face is the plane and the second hand represents the clubshaft. You can adjust the second hand or shaft with the knob on the back of the clock so it swings back and through in golf like fashion.
-you place the bottom edge of the clock on a table angled at 90 degrees to the table top to start.
-As the shaft swings back and through one end of it always points at the Base Line/ Plane Line except when the shaft is parallel to the Plane Line.
-Ok now tilt the clock back onto an address like elbow plane angle. Start swinging the shaft back as if in Startup by turning the knob and increase the plane angle to a Turned Shoulder Plane or what ever you wish at Top. Then return it to the Elbow Plane or what ever as the shaft approaches release.
-the shaft or second hand always points at the plane line, the change in Plane Angle (or Shift if you will) had no effect on the plane line. The clock face is the Plane. The shaft travels "The Plane", their relationship is fixed despite the Plane Angle changes.
-to be "off plane" is to have one end of the shaft not pointing at or tracing the plane line, base line. Say you move the bottom edge of the clock on the table top. A separate deal to Plane Angle changes.

Great example. I get it. But the question is: Are the hands being forced into a Plane Shift by the Pivot? or have the Hands decided that they want to take an angle path to the ball and so have trained their pivot to comply?

[O.B.Left]

Or both maybe? Although Im in way over my head now.

We all shift planes when going to Top dont we? Moe came close to not shifting but still did. He zeroed out his #3 though as a consequence. So the Pivot dictates a shift going back but the educated hands can still Trace, go in their own direction as opposed to the pivot pulling the hands around under plane in their direction. Hands go UP, Pivot goes BACK as opposed to them both going Back together non aligned. The shoulders are not on plane after all but the left wrist is, geometrically not literally. Dont let the shoulders make the Hands travel the shoulder plane which is not aligned to the inclined plane. Although I think the One Plane guys try to get it all on the inclined plane. A shoulder plane Homer recommended as a short shot only procedure. No offense to our Stack and Tilt brothers intended.

On the downswing the Hands train the Axis Tilt for their own advantage. Its like the lemons thing........maybe. Pivot caused Plane Angle change happens, so make the most of it. The alternative is to shorten your swing way way down and ride the same Plane Angle like in putting or chipping.

How am i doing here , this is off the cuff.

[DOCW3]

With a preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane of TS and Adjusted Address of Elbow, does this mean a plane shift from Impact Fix (8.2) to Adjusted Address (8.3)?

Thanks

DRW

[12 piece bucket]

With a preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane of TS and Adjusted Address of Elbow, does this mean a plane shift from Impact Fix (8.2) to Adjusted Address (8.3)?

Thanks

DRW

I would say naw sir because all geometry is based on Impact geometry . . . so Fix being a proxy for Impact determines selected Plane not Address unless of course you use Fix or Special as Address.

[Daryl]

With a preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane of TS and Adjusted Address of Elbow, does this mean a plane shift from Impact Fix (8.2) to Adjusted Address (8.3)?
Thanks DRW

That's not a simple question to ask.

Anyone who can ask that question, knows the answer.

I’ll bite. Here’s a “by the Book” answer.

There is one imperative definition – except with 10-9-B, Impact conditions are not the same as in the Address except for Clubshaft angle.

This is significant. If the Clubshaft is moved from leaning forward at Impact, to Vertical at Address, which is UP-Plane, then the Hands may be 1" higher at Address than at Fixed to remain on the same Plane.

“Except for special purposes, Address Position is NEVER Impact Position. See 4-D-1. Address is a fluid position midway between the directions of the weight shifting and makes it easier to keep both the Clubshaft and the Right Forearm “On Plane” because both can be pointing up at nearly the same point along the Plane Line during Start Up. Study 2-G, 2-J, 3-F-5 and 9-2.”

But lets be fair. The two above quotes are a bit cryptic.

Your question mentions “Downstroke Clubshaft Plane” and “Adjusted Address of Elbow”. That means you understand that it is Elbow Location and the angle of the Right Forearm, not simply Elbow Bend that defines an On-Plane Right Forearm.

That brings up the “Triangle” and the #4 Accumulator out-of-line Address Angle, Right Elbow Bend and the Height of the Hands at Address. All of this determines along which Plane that Extensor Action and Magic of the Right Forearm with the Left Arm Checkrein direct the Right Elbow.

So, though “Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact”, Extensor Action Holds the strokes Elbow path to the Same Plane it touched at Address.

HMM? Ya better have that Right Elbow on-plane at Address.

THEREFORE: Plane Shifts are caused by the Right Elbow not being at the Right Location at the Right Time......... PIVOT CONTROLLED HANDS

Who is DOCW3? Thanks for the Question.

[bts]

The swing plane shifts, either going back or coming down, according to the action(s) employed or the combination of actions employed, for example, the action(s) of the hand(s), arm(s), pivot, lower body and the whole body (shifting the center of gravity) separately, selectively or simultaneously.

For example, shoulder rotation only shifts the plane towards the turnning shoulder plane, which is probably the simplest, naturalest and easiest.