The Right Arm and the Flail.

[nuke99]

Yodeli and Jeff,

but both hitter and swinger can/should use PP4 .


Hitters are by no means. ARM only.

The reason of way too active right arm is detrimental to golf is simply the loss of rhythm and right wrist bent ( overacceleration). making INCONSISTENT low point.

The Key, I learn , is RHYTHM. learning to use accumulator4 dependantly of accumulator 1 , 2 , 3 . with zone 1. They are inter dependant. every part of the swing helps IMHO.

Just a thought.

[Jeff]

Yodeli

I am going to let Yoda answer your question as to how a hitter uses the pivot action to turn a triple barrel action (1:2/3) into a four barrel action (4:1:2/3) and how the pivot-thrust of a hitter differs from the pivot-thrust of a swinger. I suspect that a hitter doesn't use the pivot thrust to fully release PA#4, but merely uses the pivot thrust to partially release PA#4. I would be interested in knowing whether a four barrel hitter delays the active release of PA#1 until a certain time point in the downswing, and how he times that action so that it blends seamlessly with the pivot activated release of PA#4.

Jeff.

[biomechanic]

Biomechanic - you wrote-: "when we measured tour players most guys swing and hit at the bottom. This is measured science, not using video which won't indicate."

How did you determine (in a measured scientific manner) that tour players (who swing) hit at the bottom? What is your definition of "bottom"? How did you scientifically determine they that were using active right triceps thrust action to release PA#1 at the "bottom"?

Jeff.

Jeff I can't elaborate how we do this and this is why T.P.I scratch their heads they don't know how we can measure what we do, one they don't have the technology and two we aren't going to tell them.
Did you know Jeff that Greg Rose stole Chris's papers and research and gave them to cheetam , but it's useless to them cause they haven't the technology to work it out.
Sorry jeff this is one secret we won't give away, people can argue we don't care. Greg Norman,faldo.price,els alot of tour player worked with us .
Who can argue, when we get results we helped all these boys.

[nuke99]

Nuke99, zone 1 is the fuel to a good golf swing only if motion performed right.
you have bad body motion no matter how educated your hands are, you can't hit the ball.

Great SIR .. . the arm can only go so far even though they have speed. without its complex motion and sequence , the ball flight cannot be consistent as well.

swing at the top and hits at the bottom. has that anything to do with the pivot ? we pull the arms down to release point and the Pelvis start to release does help push or hit.... ? thanks..

IMO.. the Pivot in the downswing have 2 main stage . First part being more lateral being dominant , 2nd part rotary being dominant. there is no pure lateral or pure rotation about it ...

also A beginner will have too much rotary throughout the swing thus slicing ( too much out in path. ) while a more advanced player hooker have way too much slide ( in out) . then will figure how not to hook and not to slice... Kinda resembles the path I went through as an improving player

Interested to hear much more.

[yodeli]

Great SIR .. . the arm can only go so far even though they have speed. without its complex motion and sequence , the ball flight cannot be consistent as well.

Exactly my thought:
In my game I noticed that the more body power I use (a lot of PA#4), the more accurate and consistent I am!
This is funny because it goes along with significantly increased power wich is usualy and by common sense associated with unconsistency!

If I Swing or Hit Total Motion with not much PA#4 I tend to lose consistency.

swing at the top and hits at the bottom. has that anything to do with the pivot ? we pull the arms down to release point and the Pelvis start to release does help push...

In my opinion, focusing on something else than maintaining/(increasing!) a constant pressure in your hands cannot lead you to doing this properly.

For example, if your goal is to maintain the heavyness of the clubhead through PP#3 when PA#4 starts to release, you will naturally feel the necessity to have your right elbow in a push condition rather than in a pull condition (Caution, we are talking here of Switting or 4 barrel wich is very special).

Consider this:
2-M-4 (my unicorn!) says:
- Swinger: consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting a Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact
- Hitter: or as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed

Do you think that Switting/4 barrel could be: "consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting a Swinger's loaded Power Package into orbit toward Impact"

Could it be that instead of blasting only the left arm, you blast the whole Power Package assembled in a push condition - and then push!
Unicorn?

[nuke99]

In my opinion, focusing on something else than maintaining/(increasing!) a constant pressure in your hands cannot lead you to doing this properly.

What i used to think.. I can say this is the exact thing that cause overacceleration.. With any shot, we need RHYTHM.

For example, if your goal is to maintain the heavyness of the clubhead through PP#3 when PA#4 starts to release, you will naturally feel the necessity to have your right elbow in a push condition rather than in a pull condition (Caution, we are talking here of Switting or 4 barrel wich is very special).

I think ... the term hitting being a push and a pull had created alot of argument, recreation of the term ( switting) in the TGM community. Not exactly what is really intended. Maybe the explanation is half complete.

Swinging and hitting is more on how we treat and load the shaft.. one longitudinal one Axial. In both cases the arm have to straighten. Neither actively NOR passively -- BUT IN RHYTHM.

My understanding.. THE HIT at the bottom have nothing to do with the active independant straightening of the right arm to make an Manipulated HIT. switting in high level golf never meant to be that.

It have to do with the complex pivot sequencing in rhythm with the proper arm straightening.

Study 7-3 in depth .. less ability to push with a pitch elbow .. that's correct.. but doesn't mean a swinger have can't PUSH in the bottom of the swing. the missing piece is the dynamic pivot motion, the arm can't move very far ... can they?

[biomechanic]

[quote=nuke99;57409]

swing at the top and hits at the bottom. has that anything to do with the pivot ? we pull the arms down to release point and the Pelvis start to release does help push or hit.... ? thanks..

It does have an impact but at the end of the day a player chooses either to swing or hit,
As for the hip pivot, for hitting and swinging there is no difference, the hips move and function the same in both swings. they turn the same amount on the back swing and into impact. this is if they have the right body motion

To best honest the difference is, either you decide to drive the right arm home or prefer centrifical force. It's up to the individual. the human body motion are simular but they are loading up different muscles is all.
I believe it's not up to the coach to decided for them either, show them how to do both let them experiment then let they decide.
Tour players hit at the bottom to get better compression and distance,produce better ball flight,
switter will smoke it past a swinger or hitter every time.

But in my mind there is no wrong or right way it's what ever works, I think most people close their minds and this restricts them to try experiment further.
I don't care if someone is a switter if this works for them and they can break par use it.
I'm a proud switter and I can break par, I'll never change, I can swing or hit if I like, but I love to swing and then hit at the bottom works well for me.

What interests me is switters are a big no,no but most tour players are switters? I'm yet to understand why everyone is against it so much

[okie]

Switting like knitting can get you into a tangled mess! TGM to me is a lot about keeping what is seperate and distinct, seperate and distinct...kinda like linen ain't cotton, and a cow ain't an ass! If you understand the seperate identities i.e. you actually know what you are doing...then I think Mr. Kelley himself would wish you well! I think for all but the talented "body" mixing ain't fixing. "Can we rescue a word and discover a universe?" - Edwyn Hoskyns. To me HK gave us a working vocabulary rooted in reality (semantic hair splitting aside.) A vernacular by which we could articulate "what Is" thereby creating a distinction from "what seems as if" This is I imagine why he never dealt in dogma as it related to specific patterns. He gave us a box of workable parts and said go forth and build! We build knowing that by law it is structurally sound! I am glad however for Yoda telling us what the man would do if he were just starting to play golf!

[pistol]

Switting like knitting can get you into a tangled mess! TGM to me is a lot about keeping what is seperate and distinct, seperate and distinct...kinda like linen ain't cotton, and a cow ain't an ass! If you understand the seperate identities i.e. you actually know what you are doing...then I think Mr. Kelley himself would wish you well! I think for all but the talented "body" mixing ain't fixing. "Can we rescue a word and discover a universe?" - Edwyn Hoskyns. To me HK gave us a working vocabulary rooted in reality (semantic hair splitting aside.) A vernacular by which we could articulate "what Is" thereby creating a distinction from "what seems as if" This is I imagine why he never dealt in dogma as it related to specific patterns. He gave us a box of workable parts and said go forth and build! We build knowing that by law it is structurally sound! I am glad however for Yoda telling us what the man would do if he were just starting to play golf!

lets see if in reality whats seems if or what is. Top 10 in world can you list the pure swingers and pure hitters ? and why

[okie]

Does pure swinging include manipulated hands swingers?