7-2 Grip Types

[Daryl]

Me personally or Homer?

I know you have issues with cf /clubface . Fine by me. I have some too frankly. Should we address the theoretical, intellectual here or just try to understand what the heck Homer was talking about in 7-2?

Maybe your points are best left for a discussion in the lab. YOu know, get the white coats on.


To answer your question. Homer said in the audio tapes the true swingers clubface stayed aligned, square to his left hand , his primary lever throughout the swing. He thought that Horizontal was a natural by product of true swinging . But he attributed it to cfs effect on the clubface not the left hand.

The book only states:

With true Throw-Out Action (no manual Clubface manipulation), Centrifugal Force automatically aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging (10-10-D) regardless of the Grip being used. And Ball Position (2-N) for straight-away flight must agree with the amount of “Hookface” designed into the Club, and is, therefore, unalterable except with manual override action or adjustment of the Plane Line.

Why do I get the feeling that y'all think CF Aligns the Clubface for Impact?

[HungryBear]

The book only states:



Why do I get the feeling that y'all think CF Aligns the Clubface for Impact?

Because there are 2 ways to read "IT" but only one is correct.

A- there is "something" in the club design that allows cf to square the face- Ya know, the old Scottish clubhead that looks like a foot?- seen that explanation. That "MEDICUS" wire club (ughh).

B.- CF brings the clubface as part of a properly aligned machine into impact - but the machine alignment is "design" brought to impact by cf.

I am with B and those who try and make A work have a bent plane line. PERIOD.

It is unfortunate but I bet the above A/B thing is about 80-10-10 in the order of A-B-CONFUSED and that is too bad.

Just my point of view.

PS. O.B., The lab will just hide the subject in a corner. We are in ADVANCED so what should be a BASIC of TGM fits here, I think, By the way- reread 10-10-D. Does that create any problems for U? I

HB

[Daryl]

Pardon me, but I don't see how this quote can have more than one interpretation. It clearly states "aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging". If he believed that CF Aligns the Face for Impact, I think he would have said so.

If you want another way to put it, he's saying that cf aligns for "Closing Only" of the Clubshaft and Clubface.

[HungryBear]

Pardon me, but I don't see how this quote can have more than one interpretation. It clearly states "aligns the Clubshaft and Clubface for Horizontal Hinging". If he believed that CF Aligns the Face for Impact, I think he would have said so.

If you want another way to put it, he's saying that cf aligns for "Closing Only" of the Clubshaft and Clubface.

Guess we do belong in the lab. The idea that CF has anything to do with clubface is in the 80%. The clubface is the "back of the hand" period. CF tries to align the COG of the club but on the selected hinge alignment is mechanical. As in "my "B" above.
I don't realy care what others do or think- It is their game - but I am comfortable with the physics.

HB

[Mike O]

Asked in a more general way:

Can a player who uses Plane Line rotation to produce fades and draws use Grip rotation to get the Impact alignments prescribed by 2-J-1 for the selected Hinge Action?

And can a Hands Manipulated Swinger still use Plane Line Rotation to play fades and draws?

Good questions - that deserves a specific answer - be back atcha when I have time tonight.

[Mike O]

The clubface is the "back of the hand" period. HB

HB,
Can you just clarify what you mean by this? The context and specifics - might be helpful - otherwise this statement by itself would seem incorrect in many situations.
Thanks,
Mike

[HungryBear]

HB,
Can you just clarify what you mean by this? The context and specifics - might be helpful - otherwise this statement by itself would seem incorrect in many situations.
Thanks,
Mike

#12 above;
note the A and B sections.

I did some "sweet spot" stuff down in the lab a while back.
I proposed a "hang the club on a thread" experiment here not long ago.
I have debunked the "sweet spot" is aligned by cf numbers of times.
There is no magic physics that align the clubface all by itself.
CF takes place on a FLAT incline plane and provides NOTHING significant that rotates the club/clubface about anything (the shaft or cog axis) lying on that plane.

Like to hear your opinion
hb

[Daryl]

Guess we do belong in the lab. The idea that CF has anything to do with clubface is in the 80%. The clubface is the "back of the hand" period. CF tries to align the COG of the club but on the selected hinge alignment is mechanical. As in "my "B" above.
I don't realy care what others do or think- It is their game - but I am comfortable with the physics.

HB

I'm trying to understand you. It seems that you're mixing different concepts or maybe its just me?

Do we agree on the following?

Throw-out Aligns the Hinge. Throw-out forces the Hinge pin to become vertical to the Horizontal Plane. So, Throw-out causes the Clubshaft and Clubface to move along the axis of rotation to a vertical Hinge Pin. COG is Clubhead and is controlled by the secondary pin.

I'm not following your point about the Flat Left Wrist. If the Wrist was Turned through the Grip it wouldn't affect the Alignment of the Throw-out reaction. Throw-out can only produce a Closing Only Alignment (Horizontal Hinge).

Aligning the Clubface to a Flat and Vertical Left Wrist has advantages but its also the most difficult and demanding and you must always play at Low Point and its not always where you think it is.

[HungryBear]

I'm trying to understand you.

I'm not following your point about the Flat Left Wrist. If the Wrist was Turned through the Grip it wouldn't affect the Alignment of the Throw-out reaction. Throw-out can only produce a Closing Only Alignment (Horizontal Hinge).

Aligning the Clubface to a Flat and Vertical Left Wrist has advantages but its also the most difficult and demanding.

I am saying that cf ONLY acts on the incline plane which is 2 dimensional with a sloping orientation- rotation about the club shaft axis or any approximation of this axis haqs NO cf component because that would require force perpendicular to the plane.
The ball may be addressed toe pointing below plane or hossel first and the ball will be struck that way. Club face is aligned at fix and is brought to impact by the left hand executing the selected hinge. Which is automatic and in your computer , I hope.
All mechanics and alignments- cf acts on the plane throwout is down, out and forward ON PLANE.

HB

[EdZ]

Keep in mind when talking about a swinger's release there is first 'uncock' and then 'roll'.

CF causes the 'uncock' - and then the hinge is in position.

The 'throw out' (pivot) - causes the 'roll' and then the clubface is aligned for impact