I think that most tour players play their normal shape shot most of the time. Most guys don't curve it much with the irons. Almost every player is altering trajectory based on conditions. You may have heard Bones and Phil talking about "Stock, Pelz, etc." I don't know all their definitions, but they are talking about manipulating trajectory and fullness of shot. Many players will hit the ball up against the wind (cut into hook wind) to control line and distance. They also manipulate spin especially with the wedges.
One thing to avoid is what I call "Fancy Play Syndrome." Like hitting a chip cut seven instead of a normal eight. Why try to do something special when you normal shot will do. Sometimes you have to, but let that be the exception--especially if you are a weekend player. Along those lines, the best strikers design their basic shot to work for most shots--medium trajectory--with the ability to go up or down.
Some guys shape it more. Kenny Perry--big draw. Bubba Watson--shapes every shot. He's a fancy player--kind of old school--but it fits him and his game.
Most of the adjustments are being made to land the ball a certain yardage. You are trying to account for what the ball does after it lands. Will it skip, stop, or spin back? That adjusts your target number. Maybe the shot is 165 and the greens are firm. So you decide hit it 158. I don't think they get mechanical there. They have trained it. Some might think the number in their heads, others would try to feel the pace or length of swing. I guess you guys would teach PP#3?
My basic thought would be to design a basic ball flight that does not need much adjustment throughout the round other than taking off a few yards. Then spend your time learning and practicing all the manipulations inside 115 yards. Most tour players hit their wedges (partial shots from fairway) relatively low. They feel it is easier to control distance with low ball flight.
As far as mechanical thoughts. I think it depends on the player and how well he is playing. Some guys would have a special thought to cut it or hit it down. If a player is fighting his swing--which happens more than you might think--he might have a key that he thinks about. Many guys don't really understand what they do or why but they know how to adjust to make the ball go at the flag. Or say the main flaw (whatever the cause) is the get fast with the lower body, a player might think "quiet legs" walking into the shot.
A far as just bombing it. The guys swing pretty hard. Maybe full out only a few times a day, but still pretty hard. They definitely pick their spots. On thing most people don't know is when to let out the shaft. My theory is opposite of what many might think. Alot of people swing hard on long par fours and short par fives. On these holes, it is critcal to be in the fairway, because you have to hit long iron, hybrid, or wood. The time to go after it is a long five par that you can only reach if you smash it, but you can still lay up OK if you miss fairway. Short par fours where you can get close to the green is the other spot. There is no reason to swing extra just to get one club closer.
I'll say more later. Welcome your questions. Maybe a new thread if you like. There are some other caddies that read this forum who might chip in.
I think that most tour players play their normal shape shot most of the time. Most guys don't curve it much with the irons. Almost every player is altering trajectory based on conditions. You may have heard Bones and Phil talking about "Stock, Pelz, etc." I don't know all their definitions, but they are talking about manipulating trajectory and fullness of shot. Many players will hit the ball up against the wind (cut into hook wind) to control line and distance. They also manipulate spin especially with the wedges.
One thing to avoid is what I call "Fancy Play Syndrome." Like hitting a chip cut seven instead of a normal eight. Why try to do something special when you normal shot will do. Sometimes you have to, but let that be the exception--especially if you are a weekend player. Along those lines, the best strikers design their basic shot to work for most shots--medium trajectory--with the ability to go up or down.
Some guys shape it more. Kenny Perry--big draw. Bubba Watson--shapes every shot. He's a fancy player--kind of old school--but it fits him and his game.
Most of the adjustments are being made to land the ball a certain yardage. You are trying to account for what the ball does after it lands. Will it skip, stop, or spin back? That adjusts your target number. Maybe the shot is 165 and the greens are firm. So you decide hit it 158. I don't think they get mechanical there. They have trained it. Some might think the number in their heads, others would try to feel the pace or length of swing. I guess you guys would teach PP#3?
My basic thought would be to design a basic ball flight that does not need much adjustment throughout the round other than taking off a few yards. Then spend your time learning and practicing all the manipulations inside 115 yards. Most tour players hit their wedges (partial shots from fairway) relatively low. They feel it is easier to control distance with low ball flight.
As far as mechanical thoughts. I think it depends on the player and how well he is playing. Some guys would have a special thought to cut it or hit it down. If a player is fighting his swing--which happens more than you might think--he might have a key that he thinks about. Many guys don't really understand what they do or why but they know how to adjust to make the ball go at the flag. Or say the main flaw (whatever the cause) is the get fast with the lower body, a player might think "quiet legs" walking into the shot.
A far as just bombing it. The guys swing pretty hard. Maybe full out only a few times a day, but still pretty hard. They definitely pick their spots. On thing most people don't know is when to let out the shaft. My theory is opposite of what many might think. Alot of people swing hard on long par fours and short par fives. On these holes, it is critcal to be in the fairway, because you have to hit long iron, hybrid, or wood. The time to go after it is a long five par that you can only reach if you smash it, but you can still lay up OK if you miss fairway. Short par fours where you can get close to the green is the other spot. There is no reason to swing extra just to get one club closer.
I'll say more later. Welcome your questions. Maybe a new thread if you like. There are some other caddies that read this forum who might chip in.
Dude . . . this is SOOOOOOOOOOOO good. I'll be happy to start another thread . . . but you need a FORUM of your own. Amazing stuff!
HB . . . Thanks for the fantastic information! You need to write a book . . . great stuff!
You said ask questions . . . so I'm askin'! Feel free to say "Dorkboy, I ain't answerin' none of them stoopid questions." I had to ask though.
1. What in your opinion do you think the top areas of the game handicap players should work on to get better . . . top 3 maybe?
2. How much difference would "course management" make to a 10 handicapper?
3. Do you believe in the sports psychologist type dudes?
4. How important is pre-shot routine?
5. Do caddies have groupies?
6. Do most tour players love golf or is it a J.O.B?
7. What's the best golf course as far as strategy goes?
8. If the tour players had a big wrasslin' cage match, who would win?
9. What's the funniest tour story you can share?
10. Do you ever think "man I could hit this shot better than my guy?"
Sorry man . . . Answer the ones you feel like.
My first year on tour (after a little over one year on the Nike tour (97-98 ) I caddied in the Tour Championship. When I ran into some buddies at home, they said, "Wow, you must be a great caddie." Must reponse was, "That might be true, but I'm not good enough to help your games." So take it all with a grain of salt.
1. Tough question because it really depends on what's missing. I am a big believer in mechanics. You have to be able to hit it well enough that your decisions matter. Short game. Understanding of the way to play. Ask me this one again.
2. For a ten--not a bad golfer. Management is huge. One point I made before was how would you play a hole if you had to play it 100 times for the lowest score. No crazy chances. But you have to take your shots to make some birdies to offset physical errors.
3. Totally believe in sports psychology. But not some of the strange things psychologists want you to do. To me, it all flows from desire and goals. Where you want to be as a player determines all the actions that are necessary to achieve that status. I'm not really a result type goal setter. I believe that results flow from the process. So improve the process. Mechanics, management, routine, poise. The perfect mindframe is to walk up to the shot, read the lie , wind, yardage, etc. Pull the club and swing like you think will go where you aim. No outcome. Just make the shot.
Of course, the architects mess with you, the past messes with you, crowds, position in tourney. Some guys just aren't dumb enough to allow it to be so simple. I think psychologists can help you understand how you behave when you play your best without adding a bunch of junk to work on. Also, golf is a brutal and lonely game. Traveling around playing golf for a living can be a grind, even if you can't wait to get to the course every day. A really good psychologist can help keep you fresh and focused. I do think there is alot of work to be done in the future along the lines of a freethrow shooter making 100 in a row. Phil does it with 3 footers. Someone will learn to do it with full swings like Hogan did.
4. Preshot routine is important enough that I have snapped at a player for varying his. He said something about not making any putts and wanting to mix it up. I said, "You'll never be any good doing that." I work pretty hard on my swing but don't play that much. I used to play every day for years for money. Recently I played in a Ryder Cup style match. I had not played under that kind of pressure in a long time. Even though I drove it flawlessly, I didn't play great the first day because I didn't hit my irons close. Thinking about it between the second and third days (did not play day one) I realized that it was my routine. The one thing that's mandatory is really locking in on the target. Committed to that the next day. Much better in my singles match. I want the routine to be fairly short and crisp. Act like you know what you are doing. Make it look like you are confident. It might rub off on you.
5. Not that follow the tour. Might be some that know you are coming to town.
6. Love or JOB. Usually both. When it's going really good, it's fun, but that's a result of doing your work. It's a life of highs and lows. Look at Jay, last year he wasn't sure if he should keep playing. You know about this year.
7. One is St. Andrews. You know it's a thinking course when you are hitting driver, the next guy hits a five wood, and the last guy hits a five iron. Augusta gives you alot of choices--atleast before the last changes, which I have not seen. My favorites are like Westchester (exactly) traditional. Tough pins. Firm greens. Really windy. Where a good score is a good score. I don't like courses that dictate where you have to hit it.
8. Might be Will MacKenzie.
9. Ask Neal Lancaster.
10. If you ever think you could hit the shot better than your man, it's time to find a new player.
My first year on tour (after a little over one year on the Nike tour (97-98 ) I caddied in the Tour Championship. When I ran into some buddies at home, they said, "Wow, you must be a great caddie." Must reponse was, "That might be true, but I'm not good enough to help your games." So take it all with a grain of salt.
1. Tough question because it really depends on what's missing. I am a big believer in mechanics. You have to be able to hit it well enough that your decisions matter. Short game. Understanding of the way to play. Ask me this one again.
2. For a ten--not a bad golfer. Management is huge. One point I made before was how would you play a hole if you had to play it 100 times for the lowest score. No crazy chances. But you have to take your shots to make some birdies to offset physical errors.
3. Totally believe in sports psychology. But not some of the strange things psychologists want you to do. To me, it all flows from desire and goals. Where you want to be as a player determines all the actions that are necessary to achieve that status. I'm not really a result type goal setter. I believe that results flow from the process. So improve the process. Mechanics, management, routine, poise. The perfect mindframe is to walk up to the shot, read the lie , wind, yardage, etc. Pull the club and swing like you think will go where you aim. No outcome. Just make the shot.
Of course, the architects mess with you, the past messes with you, crowds, position in tourney. Some guys just aren't dumb enough to allow it to be so simple. I think psychologists can help you understand how you behave when you play your best without adding a bunch of junk to work on. Also, golf is a brutal and lonely game. Traveling around playing golf for a living can be a grind, even if you can't wait to get to the course every day. A really good psychologist can help keep you fresh and focused. I do think there is alot of work to be done in the future along the lines of a freethrow shooter making 100 in a row. Phil does it with 3 footers. Someone will learn to do it with full swings like Hogan did.
4. Preshot routine is important enough that I have snapped at a player for varying his. He said something about not making any putts and wanting to mix it up. I said, "You'll never be any good doing that." I work pretty hard on my swing but don't play that much. I used to play every day for years for money. Recently I played in a Ryder Cup style match. I had not played under that kind of pressure in a long time. Even though I drove it flawlessly, I didn't play great the first day because I didn't hit my irons close. Thinking about it between the second and third days (did not play day one) I realized that it was my routine. The one thing that's mandatory is really locking in on the target. Committed to that the next day. Much better in my singles match. I want the routine to be fairly short and crisp. Act like you know what you are doing. Make it look like you are confident. It might rub off on you.
5. Not that follow the tour. Might be some that know you are coming to town.
6. Love or JOB. Usually both. When it's going really good, it's fun, but that's a result of doing your work. It's a life of highs and lows. Look at Jay, last year he wasn't sure if he should keep playing. You know about this year.
7. One is St. Andrews. You know it's a thinking course when you are hitting driver, the next guy hits a five wood, and the last guy hits a five iron. Augusta gives you alot of choices--atleast before the last changes, which I have not seen. My favorites are like Westchester (exactly) traditional. Tough pins. Firm greens. Really windy. Where a good score is a good score. I don't like courses that dictate where you have to hit it.
8. Might be Will MacKenzie.
9. Ask Neal Lancaster.
10. If you ever think you could hit the shot better than your man, it's time to find a new player.
Another priceless post, Henny. Thanks!
As for the best 'Neal Lancaster' story...
I vote for The Condor and his self-piloted airplane ride.
My first year on tour (after a little over one year on the Nike tour (97-98 ) I caddied in the Tour Championship. When I ran into some buddies at home, they said, "Wow, you must be a great caddie." Must reponse was, "That might be true, but I'm not good enough to help your games." So take it all with a grain of salt.
1. Tough question because it really depends on what's missing. I am a big believer in mechanics. You have to be able to hit it well enough that your decisions matter. Short game. Understanding of the way to play. Ask me this one again.
2. For a ten--not a bad golfer. Management is huge. One point I made before was how would you play a hole if you had to play it 100 times for the lowest score. No crazy chances. But you have to take your shots to make some birdies to offset physical errors.
3. Totally believe in sports psychology. But not some of the strange things psychologists want you to do. To me, it all flows from desire and goals. Where you want to be as a player determines all the actions that are necessary to achieve that status. I'm not really a result type goal setter. I believe that results flow from the process. So improve the process. Mechanics, management, routine, poise. The perfect mindframe is to walk up to the shot, read the lie , wind, yardage, etc. Pull the club and swing like you think will go where you aim. No outcome. Just make the shot. Of course, the architects mess with you, the past messes with you, crowds, position in tourney. Some guys just aren't dumb enough to allow it to be so simple. I think psychologists can help you understand how you behave when you play your best without adding a bunch of junk to work on. Also, golf is a brutal and lonely game. Traveling around playing golf for a living can be a grind, even if you can't wait to get to the course every day. A really good psychologist can help keep you fresh and focused. I do think there is alot of work to be done in the future along the lines of a freethrow shooter making 100 in a row. Phil does it with 3 footers. Someone will learn to do it with full swings like Hogan did.
4. Preshot routine is important enough that I have snapped at a player for varying his. He said something about not making any putts and wanting to mix it up. I said, "You'll never be any good doing that." I work pretty hard on my swing but don't play that much. I used to play every day for years for money. Recently I played in a Ryder Cup style match. I had not played under that kind of pressure in a long time. Even though I drove it flawlessly, I didn't play great the first day because I didn't hit my irons close. Thinking about it between the second and third days (did not play day one) I realized that it was my routine. The one thing that's mandatory is really locking in on the target. Committed to that the next day. Much better in my singles match. I want the routine to be fairly short and crisp. Act like you know what you are doing. Make it look like you are confident. It might rub off on you.
5. Not that follow the tour. Might be some that know you are coming to town.
6. Love or JOB. Usually both. When it's going really good, it's fun, but that's a result of doing your work. It's a life of highs and lows. Look at Jay, last year he wasn't sure if he should keep playing. You know about this year.
7. One is St. Andrews. You know it's a thinking course when you are hitting driver, the next guy hits a five wood, and the last guy hits a five iron. Augusta gives you alot of choices--atleast before the last changes, which I have not seen. My favorites are like Westchester (exactly) traditional. Tough pins. Firm greens. Really windy. Where a good score is a good score. I don't like courses that dictate where you have to hit it.
8. Might be Will MacKenzie
9. Ask Neal Lancaster
10. If you ever think you could hit the shot better than your man, it's time to find a new player.
Thanks for taking time to answer man! You are now elevated to Bucket's Golf Hero of Alltime Status!
Wouldn't have thought Willie Mac would be issuing beat downs . . . I figured Bubba, Eldrick, Boo or somebody like that.
Did you see the quotes from Mac O'Grady saying that Tiger wouldn't be able to hang with Jack and the boys if he had to give up the square grooves, big driver and jacked up golf ball? What do you think?
The forum's interest level has just increased exponentially as a result of your participation. Thanks again and please please keep posting. When you post we learn!
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 06-28-2007 at 12:14 AM.
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