Hogan Right Shoulder Motion Elbow Plane Hitter

[joe curtis]

yodas luke, how are you. hope you are having a great holiday season,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what some people here are looking for is not being discussed. on other websites they are discussing the two ways to release the clubhead. one method calls it cp or cf release. another calls it hitting with leverage or slinging the clubhead. it is not just about the right shoulder. what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?

[Yoda]

we are gonna need a team of scientist to verify this. Whats next? That the ball basically goes in the direction the clubface is pointing?

When you stop and think about it . . .

It is very difficult for the ball to bounce off the face of the club in any direction other than that which the clubface is looking.

[joe curtis]

HUH? do what?

[Yoda]

HUH? do what?

Easy does it, Joe.

Chip and I were just referencing the "new" Ball Flight Laws. Recent 'scientific' means have 'discovered' that the initial direction of the ball is, in Homer Kelley's words more than forty years ago, "practically at right angles to the Clubface".

Please pardon our tongue-in-cheek exchange.

[Yoda]

What people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?

Start with the idea that V.J. is more than half-a-foot taller than was Ben.



To be sure, Swing Plane is not determined solely by height -- witness Matt Kuchar -- but, that fact should definitely not be left out of the equation.



Having written the above, it now occurs to me that Swing Plane and its influencing Component Alignments -- the overriding theme of this thread -- may not be the "positions" you are referencing. In fact, since I'm not following the "other websites" to which you refer, I must admit that I have no idea what you're talking about. Please specify the alignments you seek to differentiate. Thanks!

[O.B.Left]

Keep preaching O.B.!!!!!

You honor me Luke. Thank you.

But the truth is you and Yoda also informed me......and so I must ask you both to please keep on preaching to us here.

For those who think this exchange to be dogma or back slapping, Id suggest that is really geometry. Not golf geometry or golf gobbldy goop just plain old geometry of the circle. It knows not golf, it just is.

[YodasLuke]

yodas luke, how are you. hope you are having a great holiday season,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what some people here are looking for is not being discussed. on other websites they are discussing the two ways to release the clubhead. one method calls it cp or cf release. another calls it hitting with leverage or slinging the clubhead. it is not just about the right shoulder. what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?

I don't profess to be an expert in all the methods out there. But, I know that CP stands for centripetal and CF stands for centrifugal. Whether those are the best names for each of the styles can be an entirely different discussion.

I also know that this method has deep TGM roots. In the limited amount of CP and CF information to which I've been privy, it seems as if it's an expansion on Plane Line Tracing. From a Square Stance, the golfer would be able to trace multiple Plane Lines to the left of the target and multiple Plane Lines to the right of the target. But, each Plane Line is still a line.

Personally: I prefer to rely on the same Plane Line and Stance Line relationship, with varying degrees of Angle of Attack based on the length of the club. If I change my Plane Line, I also change my Stance Line to match. In order to create curvature, I adjust my Grip to Clubface. Unless it's a specialty shot, I find little need for having 7 Plane Lines for every club in my bag. I like the Machine Concept. And, I'm not going to exclude 1-L-19.

I'm not trying to cloud the water, but it's difficult to get too deep into this conversation about the two positions without considering many things:
Golfer's stature, shallow or steep Angle of Attack, camera location, Steering, single Plane or bent Plane, Inside-Out, Outside-In, is Clubface affecting Plane, etc., etc., etc.

[KevCarter]

I wrote this post in another thread a couple of days ago, but it is relevant here and worth a reprint . . .




In a Rhythmic, On Plane Golf Stroke, the orbiting Clubhead moves outward -- to the right and towards the Plane Line -- until it reaches its Low Point. Then, and only then, does it begin its journey inward -- to the left and away from the Plane Line.

The Flatter the 'exit' Plane Angle (after Impact), the more 'left' the Stroke will appear. But, this is a matter of Plane Angle, not Plane Line. The liberating truth is . . .

In a geometrically-correct Golf Stroke, the Clubhead never moves away from the Plane Line before Low Point, and it never moves toward the Plane Line after Low Point. So, it's Swing right, and then, Swing left.



As a simplified alternative . . .

Trace the Straight Line Baseline of YOUR Inclined Plane!

Thank you YODA. No matter how excited we get about new ideas and concepts, it all has to come back to the basic foundation in determining it's merit.

Kevin

[drewitgolf]

what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area.

Maintain Both Flying Wedges (Hogan) until Follow-Through or just your Left Arm Flying Wedge (VJ). In both cases, the First Imperative Flat Left Wrist and 1-L-8 apply.

[BerntR]

I think the assumption that the hands and the clubhead are moved on the same plane is preventing us to fully understand what's really going on in Hogan's swing.