GI: And what about everything else; feet, knees, shoulders, hands, wrists?
Tomasello: All these body parts move, of course, but only in response to the up-and-down force of the right forearm and the outward force of the hip rotation. Your shoulders, for example, turn only because your hips have turned. There is no "tension" or "seperation" of the hips and shoulders."
So who are you going to believe?
Hips move in response to the right forearm...then lead and power the Downstroke Shoulder Turn. Per 10-15-B.
DG
I'll believe HOMER.
I do believe we are talking about the DOWNSWING, right? The first part of the 10-15-B is about the delayed hip motion on the Take-Up.
"Hip Slide starts the down swing"
"Use the Turning Hip to carry the Right Elbow"
"use the Sliding Hip to carry the Right Elbow"
and in 10-15-B- [after back swing] "The Hips then take over and lead and power the Downstroke Shoulder Turn.
Nowhere in 10-15-B does it give the notion that the hips respond to the right arm moving on the DOWNSWING.
Doesn't TT show the right arm pulling down straight down (re-connect) to the body's side without a hip action on the start down? Certainly without a slide. Is he really using 10-15-C?
I'll believe HOMER.
I do believe we are talking about the DOWNSWING, right? The first part of the 10-15-B is about the delayed hip motion on the Take-Up.
"Hip Slide starts the down swing"
"Use the Turning Hip to carry the Right Elbow"
"use the Sliding Hip to carry the Right Elbow"
and in 10-15-B- [after back swing] "The Hips then take over and lead and power the Downstroke Shoulder Turn.
Nowhere in 10-15-B does it give the notion that the hips respond to the right arm moving on the DOWNSWING.
Doesn't TT show the right arm pulling down straight down (re-connect) to the body's side without a hip action on the start down? Certainly without a slide. Is he really using 10-15-C?
Unfortunately, I think that this is a debate that can go around in circles, because there is no differentiation between the actual sequence of events, and the intent of the individual. In other words, many quality athletic motions, including the golf swing, start from the ground up, sequencing through the knees, hips, trunk, shoulders, arms, and hands. However, even though the swing is starting from the ground up, the intent of the golfer may be to move the hands/right shoulder/right forearm/left arm/whatever first, you know? In which case, both sides of the argument could be argued, with no resolution, because one is talking about feel, and one is talking about real, the irony being that both are right (in the proper context). Does that make sense?
Unfortunately, I think that this is a debate that can go around in circles, because there is no differentiation between the actual sequence of events, and the intent of the individual. In other words, many quality athletic motions, including the golf swing, start from the ground up, sequencing through the knees, hips, trunk, shoulders, arms, and hands. However, even though the swing is starting from the ground up, the intent of the golfer may be to move the hands/right shoulder/right forearm/left arm/whatever first, you know? In which case, both sides of the argument could be argued, with no resolution, because one is talking about feel, and one is talking about real, the irony being that both are right (in the proper context). Does that make sense?
What you say make sense in a pure feel system. TGM is more than that.
This has not been a debate because when a question is asked, the reply is an old magazine interview- one I believe was NOT intended to TEACH TGM.
The DOWN Stroke does not in 10-15-B START with the right forearm moving first. The Hips delay or FOLLOW on the up stroke and LEAD on the down stroke. A Hip Slide and Right Arm Throw is different than a Right Arm Throw and turn. Penick's "Magic Move" is simultaneous.
But I asked if this is what TT wants to happen in his stroke- that the right arm precede any Hip Motion. Does is lower hand position make a slide unnecessary? Simple questions - I don't want to read the magazine article again. Maybe some one else knows TT and can help out.
What you say make sense in a pure feel system. TGM is more than that.
This has not been a debate because when a question is asked, the reply is an old magazine interview- one I believe was NOT intended to TEACH TGM.
The DOWN Stroke does not in 10-15-B START with the right forearm moving first. The Hips delay or FOLLOW on the up stroke and LEAD on the down stroke. A Hip Slide and Right Arm Throw is different than a Right Arm Throw and turn. Penick's "Magic Move" is simultaneous.
But I asked if this is what TT wants to happen in his stroke- that the right arm precede any Hip Motion. Does is lower hand position make a slide unnecessary? Simple questions - I don't want to read the magazine article again. Maybe some one else knows TT and can help out.
The Tomasello interview not intended to teach TGM. What a hoot!!! You got to be frickin kidding me.
In fact, the article comes off saying that Tomasello is one of a few who knows how to teach TGM.
Golf Illustrated
"Detractors---and there have been many---condemn the system as hopelessly complex and impossible to put into practical use. A.J. Tomasello is one of the very few who have been able to break down this intimidating array of physical laws into a few basic movements that, far from being impossible, can leave a student asking "Can the golf swing really be this simple?" Tomasello conveys Kelley's message with a spryness and energy more often found in a college sophomore than a senior citizen. And what a swing he has himself!" GI July 1991
On the next page Tomasello goes on to say....
"Learning the principles took time. I knew that Homer's information was what I was looking for, but truthly, after those sessions it was still over my head. Eventually, though, I learned both the movements and how to communicate them."
Sounds like Tommy is talking about TGM. No mention of any other teaching approach. The whole article is about TGM.
The Tomasello interview not intended to teach TGM. What a hoot!!! You got to be frickin kidding me.
In fact, the article comes off saying that Tomasello is one of a few who knows how to teach TGM.
Golf Illustrated
"Detractors---and there have been many---condemn the system as hopelessly complex and impossible to put into practical use. A.J. Tomasello is one of the very few who have been able to break down this intimidating array of physical laws into a few basic movements that, far from being impossible, can leave a student asking "Can the golf swing really be this simple?" Tomasello conveys Kelley's message with a spryness and energy more often found in a college sophomore than a senior citizen. And what a swing he has himself!" GI July 1991
On the next page Tomasello goes on to say....
"Learning the principles took time. I knew that Homer's information was what I was looking for, but truthly, after those sessions it was still over my head. Eventually, though, I learned both the movements and how to communicate them."
Sounds like Tommy is talking about TGM. No mention of any other teaching approach. The whole article is about TGM.
DG
It was to explain to a general audience what TGM is- it was not to teach TGM. Do you understand the differences?????
I have NOTHING against TT. You on the other hand have, in the long run, done TT a disservice. Instead of pasting the same interview and video references for so many years, a little self applied comprehension and thought about your experience would have gone a long way.
It was to explain to a general audience what TGM is- it was not to teach TGM. Do you understand the differences?????
I have NOTHING against TT. You on the other hand have, in the long run, done TT a disservice. Instead of pasting the same interview and video references for so many years, a little self applied comprehension and thought about your experience would have gone a long way.
The responses become more twisted. The HUMOR.
For those of you who want a copy of the Tomasello interview, please PM me. The interview includes a free TGM swing lesson.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 03-06-2007 at 09:59 PM.
The responses become more twisted. The HUMOR.
For those of you who want a copy of the Tomasello interview, please PM me. The interview includes a free TGM swing lesson.
DG
What is it that you think is funny? How can you see that interview- posted a a hundred times already- as a TGM lesson. An interview is not a lesson. You are unable to discuss TT- just cut and paste and add smilies.
And didn't you try to implied, falsely, that in 10-15-B that the the right arm is in control of the hip action? That this TT quote from you knw where: "Your shoulders, for example, turn only because your hips have turned. There is no "tension" or "seperation" of the hips and shoulders." is NOT 10-15-B at all. That there is a seperation of Hip and Shoulder motion called Hula Hula. It would have been in your and TT best interest to the questions instead of hiding behind a tape and interview.
On the weekend you run away and left this forum (again), I watched the entire series of videos twice and had a list of questions. I only wish someone that really knew TT and knew TGM can answer them someday. There is so much to learn. In the meantime I started to find answers as to what TT was about with a thread by Yoda in the archives:
What is it that you think is funny? How can you see that interview- posted a a hundred times already- as a TGM lesson. An interview is not a lesson. You are unable to discuss TT- just cut and paste and add smilies.
And didn't you try to implied, falsely, that in 10-15-B that the the right arm is in control of the hip action? That this TT quote from you knw where: "Your shoulders, for example, turn only because your hips have turned. There is no "tension" or "seperation" of the hips and shoulders." is NOT 10-15-B at all. That there is a seperation of Hip and Shoulder motion called Hula Hula. It would have been in your and TT best interest to the questions instead of hiding behind a tape and interview.
On the weekend you run away and left this forum (again), I watched the entire series of videos twice and had a list of questions. I only wish someone that really knew TT and knew TGM can answer them someday. There is so much to learn. In the meantime I started to find answers as to what TT was about with a thread by Yoda in the archives:
Everyone should read this. You will learn a lot about TGM and will understand and appreciate TT more than the way he is exploited now.
Make sure you read it with the 7th edition in hand.
Since day one, I have answered questions about Tomasello, I truly don't know where you have been.
This stuff must be that good for Mike to be giving it this much attention.
Run away from this forum....I have been here all along.
See Tomasello's Chapter series on "Power", I believe it's the number 5 video of that series. I believe that video will answer a lot of questions. A traditional 3 barrel left arm swing produces less than full power (see 12-5-3 of the 7th edition). I certainly don't want to be known as a short hitter, do you?
BTW, Tomasello taught both....standard and delayed hip action.
Mike a question for you....why are you so motivated to disprove Tomasello???
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 03-07-2007 at 03:23 AM.
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