Does anybody own a Flail?

[golfguru]

A quickie to add to this thread.

Conventional fitting these days is to play with the lightest most flexible shaft "that you can control". Homer (from the thread) says "Stiffer better".

I have fitted people with the view of 'that you can control' being the leading issue. If you are a swinger you can feel a lagging clubhead MORE with a whippy shaft as its still "way back there" vs a stiffer rod.

Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?

Players with better release mechanisms fit with stiffer shafts. Lesser golfing mortals generally feel more with a softer flex.
Torque wise same.

I personally like flexible shafts with low torque but I stress that is for my own clubs.

Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.

[Yoda]

Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?

Thanks for adding to this discussion, Paul.

Regarding Shaft Torque, we didn't have the sophisticated measurements available today, but when it came to 'wobbly' Clubfaces, Homer Kelley felt that 'less is more.'

Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.

[YodasLuke]

A quickie to add to this thread.

Conventional fitting these days is to play with the lightest most flexible shaft "that you can control". Homer (from the thread) says "Stiffer better".

I have fitted people with the view of 'that you can control' being the leading issue. If you are a swinger you can feel a lagging clubhead MORE with a whippy shaft as its still "way back there" vs a stiffer rod.

Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?

Players with better release mechanisms fit with stiffer shafts. Lesser golfing mortals generally feel more with a softer flex.
Torque wise same.

I personally like flexible shafts with low torque but I stress that is for my own clubs.

Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.

Are you the legendary PAUL HART from Australia and mentor to STEVE KHATIB? If so, we met at the Australian Super School for HG. If I've got the right man, you'll be a great asset to those in this forum. Thank you for helping to shed light on any subject on this site. You and Steve were true gentlemen and made all of us Americans feel welcome when we were "Down Under".
Ted Fort

[golfguru]

Wrong Paul...Paul Smith here in golfguru

Paul Hart and I are working on doing some stuff down under to get TGM better known to the masses. PHart is about 3000 miles from me currently in Melbourne.

Yup us Aussies are generally pretty friendly

[YodasLuke]

Wrong Paul...Paul Smith here in golfguru

Paul Hart and I are working on doing some stuff down under to get TGM better known to the masses. PHart is about 3000 miles from me currently in Melbourne.

Yup us Aussies are generally pretty friendly

I've got a friend at Royal Melbourne. We could meet and play a round or two. Maybe I can talk Yoda into going to the land down under. I would love to have Steve and Paul x 2 to meet Yoda. It would be an awesome meeting of the minds. Maybe we could have a Pacific Rim summit. There are some in the Orient that have traveled to the swamp that might want to come, too. Let's keep that on the front burner.

[tongzilla]

Originally Posted by tongzilla

I believe you can easily get a shaft that's too stiff for you.

That is the conventional wisdom, Leo. Always has been. Homer Kelley -- and Karsten Solheim, founder of Ping -- believed otherwise.

On what facts do you base your opinion?

Sorry Yoda, I have no "facts" to back up my claim that the stiffest shaft is not the best for everyone. But, YodasLuke has mentioned the shafts you're currently using are one step less stiff than his. Why don't you yourself use the stiffest of shafts?
Guys, this discussion may sound a bit heated, but as usual I'm here to learn and see what others have to say

[12 piece bucket]

Hey you boys have Jacked my thread!!!!

If you want to talk about Shaft Stiffness go to the little boys room! This thread was supposed to be about

BEATIN' YOUR WHEAT AND PULLIN' YOUR ROPE!!!!!


Now back to the matter at hand . . .

This paragraph was wacked by Mr. K from the 5th edition pretty much:

A Ball-related Release (10-19-0) for Swingers can be produced by using Right Arm Thrust instead of Body Momentum to resist Clubhead slow-down during extension, if there is sufficient Clubhead inertial to restrict Lag Pressure thrust (6-C) to only an Extensor Action Application (6-B-1-D, 2-M-3). Its execution must produce a true centrifugal Throw-Out action as outlined in 6-B-3-0. This Throw-Out action is termed herein as "Centrifugal Acceleration" to indiciate that Centrifugal Force (Centrifugal Reaction), not muscle, is propelling the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) into Impact. So Swingers are totally dependent on their skill at manipulating Centrifugal Force while Hitters are not. But Study 4-D, 6-F-0 and 6-R-0.


So since we are advised to compare the Primary Lever Assembly with the common flail, WHAT DOES THE RIGHT ARM CONTRIBUTE IN THIS ANALOGY? Structure via Extensor Action only? The right hand is certainly attached to the flail apparatus but what DO IT DO?

Thanks!

B

[Yoda]

Sorry Yoda, I have no "facts" to back up my claim that the stiffest shaft is not the best for everyone. But, YodasLuke has mentioned the shafts you're currently using are one step less stiff than his. Why don't you yourself use the stiffest of shafts? Guys, this discussion may sound a bit heated, but as usual I'm here to learn and see what others have to say

Not 'heated' from my end at all, Tong.

What I said in my post #10 above was that Homer Kelley believed that golfers of all abilities would benefit from stiff shafts. [I think the S400 in my irons and X100 in my woods qualify!] However, in most cases, they play with the more flexible, 'regular' Shafts either recommended to them or that they buy 'off the rack.' You have stated your opinion that a golfer can "easily get a shaft that is too stiff." Apparently, others agree.

[brianmanzella]

ALL FACTS below....

Shaft stiffness is one thing, shaft frequency is another.

You can make two clubs with IDENTICAL STIFFNESS, but the one with the lightess head will have the HIGEST FREQUENCY and 'play' stiffer.

In any and every one shaft type (ie. dynamic, precision FM, rifle, project x rifle, etc), there is ONE BEST FREQUENCY for every golfer.

Here is the ONLY way that that frequency for a particular shaft can be found.

Test clubs have to be 'put together' where ALL the other variable remain the same, but the FREQUENCY CHANGES. Then the player must hit 'em all, blind test (don't know which one they are using), and the 'fitter'/observer will be able to tell which is best.

I talked to both HOT STIXS and GOLFING BY DESIGN about this at the PGA SHOW. They both agreed that this was the 'best' method, but would be hard to do due to cost. HG has a screw in system, but IMO needs more differenent frequency shafts at about 5 cycles apart to do the testing correctly. Bill MacDonald, CEO of HG, told me they could make up a fitting cart anyway you wish, so it CAN be done.

I have asked this question IN PERSON to people like BOB BUSH, and they all agree, that this (the above) is 100% true.

As far as "the stiffer the better".....not if you want it to perform the best for any particular golfer.

[mb6606]

Anyone want a training flail?????
http://www.metalwoodbats.com/store/products/86.aspx

This flail would be easy to make - all you need is a wood baseball bat and some screw eye hooks.