[Yoda]

You also conveniently ignored responding to your error stating shoulder plane
and clubhead plane have to be different planes. They don't per the examples I
gave. Can you admit you are wrong?


David A.

Well, SuperDave, that one was just too obvious. I mean, c'mon. Of course
they rotate on two different planes. There needs to be at least some
challenge!

But, since you've brought it up, and since your latest post is crying out for
meaningful debate to educate the golfing masses, let's reprint your
self-described "examples" and see just how willing you really are
to engage in constructive debate.


My comments are in bold.

One of the main reasons you don't want a flat as possible shoulder turn is
because such a turn will tend to position the club inside the line when the
club is parallel to the ground which even HK knew was undesireable.

You have described a Pivot-Controlled Hands procedure wherein the
Shoulder Turn pulls the Hands below Plane. This is the polar opposite of
TGM's Hand-Controlled Pivot wherein the Hands maintain the On Plane
alignments and the Body responds accordingly.

That is true even if shoulders turn passively as a consequence of hand/arm
action.

Well, I guess that pre-emptive strike shoots down my above Hand-Controlled
Pivot response.

Now, you can avoid that by various means such as taking the club outside
initially, but such maneuvers have drawbacks as well.

"Taking the club outside initially" is merely a Hands-Controlled
Pivot deliberately executing the Start Up Off Plane instead of On Plane.
But, I'm glad you covered that base. Don't want to give the 'debating'
adversary any 'wiggle room,' right?

The are other solutions, but that is not the subject here.

But, just in case I had anything else in mind, let's just slam the
door completely!

The fault of too flat a backswing with the clubhead inside the hands when
club is parallel to the ground is one of the most common faults in golf. I
would guess it plagues probably 95% of all golfers.

"The fault of too flat a backswing with the clubhead inside
the hands??" And all this time I thought we were discussing a Shoulder
Turn executed "as flat as possible," a concept totally
independent of the Clubhead's Inclined Plane of Motion.

I really don't understand why anyone would recommend it unless they were your
opponent.


At no time did Mr. Kelley recommend "too flat a backswing." He
recommended a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn to place the Right
Shoulder on the Inclined Clubshaft Plane of Motion at the Top.

Now do you see why I didn't respond?

No, I didn't think you would.


Which is why I didn't in the first place.