shoulder turn?
 

From a setup position do the shoulders turn parallel to to the ground or perpendicular to the spine. Which I take it to mean the left shoulder turns toward the ball. Is this right?

Depends on the plane angle and hand path and knee action and hip action . . . . basically what components and variations you choose.

Helpful 12PB!! ;) but accurate I guess...

The 2 options in the real world are :-

- backswing either rotated shoulder turn (90 degrees to spine) or flat shoulder turn (to postion right shoulder on plane)...

- downswing - both of the above should have "on plane" shoulder turn.

If that is correct...it begs the question what are the differences in the backswing...which components go with which etc...

There is some line about rotated shoulder turn achieving same plane as flat shoulder turn at top/end...but it all depends on waist bend or something...

If waist bend is key then that is all knees and hips...like 12PB said...

Need some wisdom to understand how it works together...not me sadly...

Generally I think it has lots to do with the selected plane angle. Mr. Kelley said that he thought about naming the book Plane Golf. So the components must comply with the plane and hand path. Generally I'd say the steeper the plane the flatter the shoulder turn and vicey versy. So the more up the hands go generally the shoulder plane is going to be flatter and the more "deep" they go the shoulder turn will be steeper.

There are options Im sure, but assuming a flat shoulder turn back to the Turned Shoulder Plane would it be correct to think that....... The steeper the Angle of the Hands at Top , the more the Plane Angle must shift down, flatten out, in Startdown to get both the Hands and Right Shoulder onto the Turned Shoulder Plane?

Our perhaps I am wrong in assuming the Hands and Right Shoulder need to be on the same plane in Startdown?

Thanks for this.

flat shoulder turn (to postion right shoulder on plane)...


What is this saying?

See, as predicted...poke Bucket and he gives up the goods! Thanks!

The right shoulder has a role to play in the downswing. The precise alignment it requires in an on plane downswing is to be "on plane"...same as hands...at least in a nonshifting downswing?

So work out what plane angle you want in downswing...then put your right shoulder in that position during the backswing...

The "flat shoulder turn" is to be used for any plane angle flatter than rotated...according to the book...

If you look at rotated shoulder players...MORAD style I think...?? there hands go pretty deep...

now I'm getting confused again...

Your getting confused!! I still don't understand how to swing my shoulders in the backswing.

Maybe it is something you just experiment with between the 2 versions - rotated...and flat...I don't think it matters anywhere near as much as getting it on plane on the downswing....

Just make sure it is a proper turn for your full swing without sway...keep steady centred head...then downswing on plane

Position of the right elbow controls plane on the backswing to an extent too . . . . Note how close Hogan's right elbow is to his rib cage versus Nicklaus . . . Note knee action and shoulder turn components too.