Spine Tilt
 

Last night Martin Hall advocated tilting the spine to the right illustrating the procedure by holding the driver down the center spine line pointing directly between both feet & then dropping the right shoulder to the right until the grip hits the inside of your left thigh.The procedure was to allow one to hit the sweet spot of the driver ( upper left quadrant of the modern driver & promote an upswing at impact. Not sure about this, any thoughts.:doh:

Not sure when in the process he is talking about that move. TGM would advocate keeping the head in the center of your stance though and right shoulder back and down. then a tilt on downswing with right shoulder on plane.

Might all be the same thing.

havent heard the modern driver on left upward aft before, be interested in hearing others thoughts on that.

Do I remember correctly that Ben Doyle has you set up with a tilt. If you set up with a tilt then I guess a hulu hulu motion is not needed. then Martin tilted the spine toward to hole and then back. So I guess I understand him slightly tilting at address, tilting to the hole then hulu hulu slide on downswing. Golly I guess that is a lot of motions. Then his rubbish section said down't turn perpendicular to spine as would promote hook. This has got to be a confusing area. If you turn perpendicular to spine what prevents OTT move. Ah hip slide hulu hulu and then where does the goat humping, spine extension standing up come in. There is sure a lot of conflicting information out here on the forums. How do you match it all up and keep you head straight.

Hip-O-Bottomus
 

If you require more Axis Tilt at Address, simply keep your Head centered between your feet and slide your Hips left without moving your Head.

David,
If I asked you to throw a golf club (preferrably and old one that has mis-behaved for an extended period of time) on Plane, down the fairway toward the target (which is on the Plane Line in this case), would you goat-hump your Hips in the direction of where the now missing ball would be placed?

As far as axis tilt i believe two things.

It is needed.

It is not a big huge athletic move. Like garlic, a pinch will do.

Up
 

Would you ever advise hitting up? Isn't the opposite of up always down?

Brian


The only way you can hurt the body is not to use it, inactivity is the killer, and remember, it's never to late to start." Jack Lalanne

I decline to answer drewit cause I spent a day playing golf with bucket

What about those who, like me, love to have more than a pinch of garlic? :laughing9

Speaking of perversion , the axis tilt acquired via a dynamic moving backwards of the head (rather than a slide of the Hips) is referred to as "perverted" axis tilt.

Bucket through his studies brings new meaning to this term I'd imagine , David. That man knows his goats.....very, very well, first name basis probably.

I dont have my book with me but I believe Homer said to always hit down "except under special circumstances". I may have the wordage wrong but something to that effect. Driving the ball hard or changing your impact dynamics for added distance qualifies as a specialty shot to my mind. With the ball teed up in front of low point, you'd need to adjust for the fade tendency given a Rotated Grip etc etc. But there is distance to be had flighting the ball in that manner , high but with less spin.

And Homer was all for distance, power golf.

What did Martin Hall recommend for the long bomb C.G. ? Plane line , face angle , ball position, point of contact on the ball etc.

I believe Martin is Trackman savvy in addition to being a TGM'r, which could/maybe/ perhaps make for a different procedure given total Homer's total compression via Horizontal, 2-C.

Couple of notions/observations . . . . .

Two ways to get the tilt . . .

1. Tilt your tea cup by sliding your hips=PREFERRED METHOD
2. Tilt your tea cup by dropping your head back=PERVERTS METHOD (by classicist of course)

The plane of the arm swing is largely controlled by the trajectory of the shoulder turn (right shoulder geometry) . . . the plane/axis of the shoulder turn is largely controlled by the motion of the spine (extending and side bending) and hips . . . which in turn are largely a function of the flexion and extension of the knees.

So this whole notion of how much axis tilt and how little axis tilt is relative . . . cats get skint different ways every day . . . BUT you'll find that a lot of bombers have tons of axis tilt . . . see below . . . this begs the question WHY? I think this goes back to trackman data (for us yellow book types . . . angle of approach and angle of attack . . . and conversely angle of "ascent"). Axis tilt basically allows these cats to achieve the launch conditions to bomb it . . . BUT some of these cats will miss a 50 yard fairway by 30 yards too.







VERSUS



Another piece to manipulating those trackman numbers is how fast you "RE-PLANE" the club . . .


LOW LAUNCH


HIGH LAUNCH

those pictures are later in the swing, I always thought of axis tilt as taking place at impact. If you look at Jack at impact it is not a big move, which is why he had such great balance and more consistent than Tiger, IMO.

Certainly . . . those "positions" later in the swing BUT those positions are arrived at from moving through other positions. Are you submitting that the differences in the pics are just "window dressing"? So all these pics have the potential to produce the same ball flight in terms of curvature, spin and trajectory? I'm all ears . . . .

When I think of Axis tilt I think of it face on at impact. I mean a guy like Charlie Wi can get that look at those points in the swing and he has less tilt than most at impact.

If you are going to look down the line it shows up pretty good as well, look at Ricky Fowler versus say Mac O' Grady at impact, big, no make it huge difference.

I don't think you can tell ball flight by those pics. Would depend on ball position. Nicklaus had different flight than Trevino but each could produce the others.

Dude how many green jackets does lee buck have. Plus in his day fat Jack was waaaay longer than his peers. Lee included..... Lee had low ball mechanics......Jack had moon ball mechanics.......

Low Blow :(

Pun intended???

Lee doesn't own a Green Jacket.

We talking height or distanc. Lee Buck could hit it high when he wanted, but not as long as jack.

Whats that got to do with axis tilt? That simply allows the power package to be delivered at the right location. Anyone worth a damn has some, but it is not true IMO that the more the better, or the farther.

With all due respect, between the late 1960's and early-mid 1970's, Lee didn't play in 5 or 6 Masters (which was during the prime of his career).
We will never know what would have happened had he played, but after watching Lee during those years, I think it is safe to say he certainly could have won at least one Masters.
Is there any doubt that he was one of the game's great players?

It always makes me smile when the distance of certain players is mentioned. We all want to bomb it and we love seeing the long drive but history has shown us that hitting it long does not make you a winner and hitting it short does not make you a loser.

I am probably the biggest lee buck fan on the forum. You can check my posts on that. But the question is WHY didn't he play? Jack wasn't even close to lee buck with hitting wedges.....that is because his action was different. But Jack could launch it high. I think lee was a better ball striker no question but Jack could do some things lee would have a difficult time doing with his action.

A recent example is zach Johnson .... Great player but action not conducive to launching it

I agree with that, Jack was arguably the greatest ever.
As for Trevino not playing in the Masters, Lee said he never played because of perceived unwelcomeness of minorities from the Augusta Club. He did say in his later years that he regretted the decision not play.

I have also read that he didn't play because the course didn't suit his game . . . . who knows . . . I just know that if somebody said you can pick between jack and lee to hit the ball with in 5 feet with a short iron to save your life . . . I pick lee . . . but if it's a 1 iron . . . jack . . . different actions . . . not saying one is bad . . . just different.

Sorry but I don't have time to go through 4,000 posts - :salut:

Couldn't agree more, either one would be a great choice with a short iron/wedge.
Jack was probably the best long iron player that I have ever seen play, especially under pressure. The trajectory and ball flight was a thing of beauty.

I watched a bunch of interviews with Lee Trevino a while ago. Regarding one of the majors when he beat Jack down the stretch (I don't remember which) he talked about his low ball flight and that on this particular tournament and final day(s) the greens were very receptive and could hold his low ball. He said that he knew then that he had a really good chance to beat Jack and he succceeded.

So Lee couldn't hit the ball high anytime the situation called for it. At least not with the same degree of precision as he had when he hit it low.

Good thing Johnson did not skip the master, short and low ball hitter and all. :eyes:

witcha 100% but he did it different than say a phil . . . . won it with his wedge game more so than banging it on the par fives in 2.

That is one of the reasons that I LOVE this game. The fact there are so many ways to accomplish the goal of getting the ball into the hole. Obviously, all tour pros can play the game but some are a notch above in certain areas and it pushes them over the top to win. You can be a big hitter like Bubba Watson, a great wedge player like Zach Johnson or a great putter like Brad Faxon and win on tour. Then again it would be great to be like Jack and Tiger and do it all sometimes.