3 types of lag
 

Yoda wrote:
there are three types of Lag (6-C-0):

The "Clubhead Lag" that you refer to with Hogan and Garcia is Accumulator Lag. Both men have Clubhead Lag. And Pivot Lag, too. But the trailing of the Club behind the Hands is not Clubhead Lag. This is a widely held misconception, even among long-time students of The Golfing Machine.

Nothing in The Star System of G.O.L.F. is more important than Lag. And yet the separate identities of the three types are not generally known, much less differentiated. Time permitting, I hope to post on this very important topic in the reasonably near future.

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Where can I find this?

Didn't Homer Kelley write that?

I don't think Homer wrote about Garcia, do you?

Don't get upset. "FeverPowerful" identified Hogan and Garcia as examples of "Clubhead Lag". Yoda said that although Hogan and Garcia had Clubhead and Pivot Lag in their Swings, FeverPowerful had observed and identified "Accumulator Lag".

The wealth of information stored in this website is priceless.

If you post about "Clubhead Lag" please mention the "procedure" for a Swinger that allows the #3 Pressure Point to return to the Aft side of the Shaft at Impact. It took me a very long time to figure that out, and I'd like to get your thoughts.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...&highlight=lag

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not thinking so much about what swingers do - I think I'm a hitter. I also use TGM to hit me on the head.

Ok, thanks anyway.

I'm not sure what you are thanking me for, but anyway: You'r welcome.

Interesting Yoda quote there.

I read it to mean that Clubhead Lag is Lag PRESSURE at the #3. The clubs inertia as sensed in a pounds per square inch manner at the #3 as opposed to the #2 Angle as measured in degrees in Hogans , Garcias swing.

For this reason Luke doesnt like it when one says "lag" he prefers "lag pressure". They are different. The former can have a common golf speak #2 angle connotation to it.

Lag Pressure has no Release Point as its release would be associated with a loss of power . Whereas Accumulator Release is associated with increased power. If it were not so the farmers flail would not work. You must Release. Making those who would avoid Finish Swivel , scardie pants with compensated held off low powered swings. Good for some shots , shorter ones but not for long drives. I cant believe some of the guys who teach that stuff are ex A.I.'s. What didnt they get about Release?

I'm getting tired of my own ignorance. All I wanted was to read more about the 3 different lags, since this is not much spoken of? But that's not saying that I would have understood so much...?

Its a big question, but I think its talked about...

Lag is everywhere and importantly, employed differently by Hitters and Swingers.

Here's something from my personal think lab: Three types of Lag, Three Zones.

Pivot Lag (Zone 1), Accumulator Lag ( Zone 2), Lag Pressure (Zone 3). Does that fit? Thats the entire body as well as the club.

Also from a Downswing Sequence , 6-M-1 perspective: The radius extends from the Feet to the Clubhead. In the downswing, each component part Lags and places Drag upon its proceeding component until it overtakes it. So lag exists from foot to clubhead, ideally, if your swinging from the feet anyways. Sometimes we dont obviously , putting for instance. The Feet are the first component to sense Drag , the Clubhead is the last component to Lag.

I like Lag Pressure (type 3 lag if you will) as a course of study. Homer wrote the book on it , so to speak. And as he said in 6-H-0 you cant have educated hands unless you know what to teach them. He then laid it all out, one list for the Hitters Hands , one for Swingers. See 7-19 Lag Loading as well.


Here's a Yoda post that alludes to Accumulator Lag and the differences for Hitter and Swinger. The physics employed is different and so is the Lag.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...umulator +lag

Thank you - here was something to put your (i.e. my) teeth into.

6-C-2-0 CLUBHEAD LAG . " Is the secret of golf......."


This is Lag Pressure here. Unlike the Accumulators it has no Release Point. It requires a constant nursing. A constant amount of lag pressure can be obtained only via constant rate of acceleration. etc etc etc.

This is the best web site going for this topic. Lynn knows Lag Pressure, "backwards and forwards"............... if he's using a lagging takeaway anyways. Little pun there sorry.

Interesting (but I didn't understand your last sentence.) If I am a hitter and the goal is lag pressure, would it be a good idea to start the backswing/takeaway with heavy drive loading? (If I know what I am talking about).

Thats a fine way of Starting Up for a Hitter , but you do have options in golf, trillions of them quite literally. Homer didnt believe there was "one best way".

Typically I'd imagine, a Hitter would Startup from Impact Fix with his Hands in an Impact condition, (flat left , bent right) and employ a "Carry Back" , no (or very little) sense of Lag in the initial move back . A Swinger or Hitter wishing to establish a stronger feel of Lag and Drag early in his motion can Startup from Adjusted Address with the Hands set mid body , the Clubhead trailing the hands, and "swing the club back" with a Lagging Takeaway.

Homer in 12-1 and 12-2 prescribed Standard Address 10-9-A with mid body hands and bent left , flat right wrist conditions for both Swinging and Hitting. While this is typically a Swingers type deal it is a very useful thing for Hitters as well. Homer I believe, did this in an effort for "sameness" between the two procedures. He said he "sweated bullets" over the lists in 12-1 and 12-2 so we shouldnt take them lightly.

Interestingly Lynn in his premium movie with Brian Gay discusses how from Impact Address there is still ideally some Lag to be sensed/perceived in Startup. So I guess you could say that even for the Carry Back there is some Lag and Drag. Often things arent just black or white in TGM or in life........there's a seemingly infinite number of shades of grey on a spectrum.

And where does one sense the Lag associated with Startup? Not at the #3pp! Not along the aft of the shaft! It'd be along the front of the shaft wouldnt it? Giving you a Reverse #3pp or some such thing. It'd be a brief little bit of loading that subsides when the Hands established their Impact Condition, flat left/bent right........which Lynn once told me could happen right around the time the hands are over your right leg as Extensor Action snaps them to attention.

I'm not sure how to reply. It's interesting to read even if it goes over my head, so I can't say so much about it other than thank you. Maybe I can come stronger back in the future??

Should? Could? the #3 PP trace the Plane Line in "Both Directions"? Could one use the "Waggle" to pressure the #3 PP and then take that to the Top? (ala Ben Doyle)

Not familiar with the Ben Doyle thing.

But Id say you for sure trace on the way back but it cant be with a loaded #3 pp like on the way down. Lynn told me once about the RFT taking the #1 pp Back , In and Up in Startup. I like that one. Its nice and snug on the way back and the spot at which I apply Extensor Action too, but the tracing Id imagine is still with done with the #3pp ...........cause its attached to the Sweetspot Plane and its the Sweetspot you want to hit the ball with. I dunno.