Losing secondary lever assembly
 

I've always struggled with uncocking my left wrist too early, and the more I try to hold that power accumulator 2 angle the tighter my left arm becomes. Any suggestions?
Thanks

Steve, I wanted to thank you for your hinge question in the other post.
 

What I know about the Vertical Hinge comes from Yoda's DVD set and You tube film on "Uncocking the Left wrist." Watch it here, often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVws0CQqTDc

Last night, I hit over 200 balls with it in a variety of ways. My pivot can "invite" the VH down and through the swivel. Wrist must be pliable, but not overly so, like holding an injured bird. My right forearm, using pp# 1, can blast it down-plane effectively, too. Your left arm is a "leash" or light constraint to your right arm or total motion. I believe if you are on-plane correctly (1-L-6), the VH will be effective at any time it is "unleashed."

Use the search function on this excellent site to investigate further. You might be uncocking the VH with your left forearm. That is bad news!

Patrick

Move your Release Point forward until Uncocking the Left Wrist occurs later.

Would that be further "down" or further "forward" ?

Down, Forward or Out is all the same on a Circle.

Steve, have you seen this video?
 

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...5&video_id=101

I believe Mr. Tomasello is singing our tune! Look at all those 3 videos.

Patrick

First of all . . . . probably want to get away from "holding" on to #2 . . . the model for #2 laggy look was Hogan and I can PROMISE you he wasn't holding on to nothing . . .

You want to create your accumulator lag and lag pressure DYNAMICALLY with THRUST from the ground up. But from the word "thrust" you could infer FAST QUICK HARD . . . probably not the best thoughts. You want to use the ground FOR A LONG TIME.

What does your pivot look like? Do you move around? Hang back?

A couple things you could work on . . .

1. Hit a lot of hard punch/chip type shots.
2. Feel like your arms/hands are leaving the clubhead behind on your takeaway so much so that it actually bends your left wrist more . . . then drag everything down with your pivot by really using the ground via your thighs and hips . . . feel like you are dragging your shoulders too.
3. Get you a piece of 1/4 inch plexey glass (sp?) a small piece will do set it about 4 or 5 inches behind your ball . . . hit shots . . . chips and pitches first . . . build up to full swings.

Here are a couple to check out . . .

Note in the first one how he's dragging the club back ... looks like the weight of the club and his arms are actually "cupping" or bending his left wrist . . . . in the first one you may be able to say "he's holding on" . . . ain't happening . . . look at the second one at full speed . . . that freakin' club is WHIPPING . . . those accumulators are getting FIRED . . . maybe automatically but . . . they are getting slung out . . . thrown out . . . whipped out . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPmcghb1L5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JlUJ...eature=related

Thanks for the feed back.This 1/4 inch piece of plexy glass. How do you put it behind the ball and what is its purpose? Someone asked about my pivot and I have a tendency to move my hips forward toward the ball on my downswing and it feels like my right hip has taken up the space where my hands should be. I never feel like my hands are close to my thighs on the downswing. I feel like they have moved out to the target line.

Goat humping . . . what happens likely is your hands get out away from you and the shaft "lays down" your plane get shifted out to the right . . . . hands out and club in . . . so from there you have disrupted your radius and to get to the ball YOU HAVE TO UNCOCK . . . Is your shaft at impact raised up/more vertical than it was at address? By shifting everything that far "out" . . . you're moving low point well back of what you intend at address. All you got left is #2 (uncocking) to get to the ball . . . because you have disrupted your radius via your pivot. Your arms are going to "try to get in line" with the "center of rotation" . . . so if your spine gets vertical . . your arms raise up and and hands get out away from you . . . gotta get to the ball somehow so you throw your wrist at it.

Your butt is "comming off the wall" . . . you need to feel your sliding forward AND going BACKWARD and probably will need to feel your head and chest "compressing" down toward the ball.

Yes my spine becomes more vertical and my shaft is more upright at impact and my hands are much higher. I have a tough time hitting the ball first. I used to try to practice the drill where you imagine your hands are under a shelf at address and come back under the shelf at impact. Good thing I was using some foam rubber. I usually feel like I have to lift my left shoulder up to my ear to make room for the club shaft at impact.

You gotta work on this . . . . I battled/battle the same thing. You do that move and you can hit the freakin' ball anywhere.

The reason I told you to get that 1/4 inch thick piece of plexey glass is so you can MAKE yourself hit the ball first. You can set it 6 inches back of the ball whatever at first. If you dump #2 early you'll crash the glass. . . won't screw your club up but it'll make you hit the ball first and keep your alignments.

Do you have a video camera? You need to really monitor your pivot. If you can get a microphone stand and a dowel and a pool noodle you can set that deal up so it rests on your head. You gotta figure out how to pivot with your head staying on the wall and your booty sliding on the wall behind you.

You can have the best wedge/power package alignments in the world but that goat hump is gonna disrupt everything . . . gets your plane line shifted and increases the rate your clubface closes . . . .disrupts low point as well.

FEELS . . .

• left shoulder down much longer as you come thru . .
• feel like your ass goes way back and your chest comes way down during your transition
• imagine or actually drill with a wall behind you . . . when you start down turn AND SLIDE your left butt check to the wall and forward of where it was at address.

You'll have to really exaggerate your practice swings . . . make sure you video to monitor it if you can . . . do a lot of slow motion drilling too. You fix this and you'll be amazed how much better your swing will plane and how much easier it will be to keep your wedges and hit the ball first. Go get 'em . . .

"plexiglass" is correct. And this is very interesting, thanks to all.
 

You want to use the ground FOR A LONG TIME.

Is this why rolling the ankles and feet is better ala Jack/Hogan? It seems like that sort of action creates a "longer" chain of events that just forces the clubhead down-plane.

How does the hitter approximate this effect of unrelenting ground use? If I need to do this question elsewhere, no problem.




Here are a couple to check out . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPmcghb1L5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JlUJ...eature=related[/quote]

IC
Pie Jesu? I would have thought something more Brahmsish with thicker chord Structure would have fit the bill.

Let me suggest an alternative approach to it. You need to feel your way into it. Educate your hands.

I don't think you will get there with "macro" alignments unless your hands know what it should feel like. When the hands do know - they will command the rest of your body to not do anything that releases the club premature. Or steers it from cocked to level.

I suggest that you do a lot of trial swings back and forth and focus on the sensation in your hands.

Midway in the down swing you want to feel a longitudinal rope pull. And absolutely no forces through the side of the grip.

You want to feel that the weight of the club and the clubhead lag keeps your left wrist cocked for much longer than today. It stays cocked because of the clubhead lag and not because you try to hold the wrist angle by muscle force.

You may feel that PP#2 torques the club to rotate. The club could want to increase the wrist cock but you don't have enogh flexibility in your left hand. As long as this happens without the wrist starting to uncock it is all right.

You can also use your right hand, and pressure point #1 (the palm of your right, that pushes on your left hand, to keep the wrist cock longer.

The whole motion is a "you can't catch me" (yet) thing. While the club tries to catch up and release, you move your hands to a new position where it stays cocked. Eventually you reach game over and get the snap release I'm sure you're looking for.

So hold on to the club, be loose in your hand joints and swing. Pull that "rope" in a direction that keeps the wrist cocked longest. It is easier to do it with a really whippy shaft because then the shaft will helpt to maintain the lag even if your hands don't. But you get the best practice with a stiff shaft and a long club, and also the clearest feedback when your hands start working the club in counter productive ways.

When you start to get a hang of it, you will feel it in your hands when the release starts to early. And soon you will learn that it happens because you cheat with your down stroke path. A typical hacker problem is to take a short cut almost straight towards the ball instead of going in a deep curve deep down behind the ball. A sub concious anxiety of slamming the club hard into the ground before impact may also prevent you from going deep enough with your hands.

You will also feel it when the right arm gets in the way and starts to muscle the release to early by pushing on the side of the shaft (pp#3). That can easily happen if you don't do a proper turn back and forth.

You can do trial swings with an easy swing. But it must be fast enough to produce dynamic weight forces that you can feel. And don't be afraid to crank it up when you start getting the hang of it.

You must:

* Believe that centripetal force will release the club for you as long as you don't try to force it to happen. (You most certainly try to force it to happen today).
* Believe that the club will release itself faster and more violently the less and the longer you don't lift a finger to make it happen. If you lead with your hands long enough you will run into an automatic release trigger and a very violent release is unavoidable.
* Believe that the club head will not dig deep into the ground before the ball even though you swing your hands so close to the ground that it is a distinct geometric possibility. Remember, when your club comes to the same place in the swing, your hands are long gone.
*Let go of the desire to control the club head. You want to be reckless and move those hands as quickly through the impact zone without waiting for the clubhead to catch up. Like a big brother who doesn't want to look out for his little brother anymore. If you don't wait with your hands and if you don't try to force the club head to catch up, the club head will catch up. It is really counterintuitive if you haven't trained your hands with the right feel.
* In other words: Swing and monitor your hands and let the club take care of itself.

If you haven't done it before - if you haven't ingrained the right feel for it - it will feel really reckless. Just swinging the hands through and not being in control of the club head. That's what it will feel like. It's a good thing then, to monitor the hands and not the club.

[/quote]

In those swings look at Hogans shins, ankles and hips . . . backswing/transition kinda like a "hockey stop" weight right but leaning left . . . his WHOLE BEING is gripping the ground . . .

Have a look at this . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goFvNJksV6M


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW8qDxX6Nmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br8dfnnWL5k

I am a skier instructor in Utah and when I looked at the Hogan video that is what his right leg and hip looked like to me. A skier angulating in a turn. I went out and hit some chip shots with that feeling and trying that pivot you guys were talking about and it was the first time I could actually hit the ball and then brush the turf. I also found a good video that gave me good insight to the pivot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFM_...eature=related. Don't know how to make it a link but it was at golfresearch.com.
Thanks again

The skiing comparison seems relevant. Quite similar weight shift and also similarities with foot work vs upper body work.

Not only with the back foot but also with front foot from impact to end.

Hockey stop to a high jump . . .

These are all good suggestions.

Have you tried the Aiming Point procedure? You'll notice you dont Release Early when there is no ball there but in the presence of the ball we tend to throw the club early for some reason. The aiming point replaces the ball, your not looking at the ball anymore. Try an aiming point a few inches on the target side of the ball with a mid iron and see what happens.

How far is your spine tilted forward at address? Kevin Carter gave me a lesson yesterday and all of a sudden on short pitches the shanks came on. He told me it looked like I was crowding the ball and I thought about it all morning. Hit balls again later and realized I was too close and standing too upright. Bend over, clear the right hip, less chance of collision and the hump the goat. Stand straight, raise right hand and let fall. It hits the right pocket. bend over, now it does'nt. The swing needs space.

Nice. The Delivery Path of the Hands like the Delivery Line of the Clubhead approaches Impact from the inside........inside to out as it must assuming they are traveling down an inclined Plane. Think about it from a down the line perspective. To go DOWN plane is to go OUT for all but perfectly vertical planes. This in to out path of the Hands needs a lane way cleared by the right hip or the brain will re direct the Hands out and around the "stuck right hip"......"roundhousing" resulting, divots pointed to the left , shanks etc. All due to the loss of the correct Angle of Approach and the proper Line of Compression. Read 2-C-0 to see how you need to take the ball DOWN and OUT not just FORWARD to hit it straight and long. Impact is ideally Three Dimensional. Down, Out and Forward. It'll seem cross line to the newly initiated but it will/should produce a straight divot. Keep thrusting down and out till the divots stop pointing to the left. If you dont feel like you are thrusting down and out , assume you arent.

The blur of the clubhead does not point at the target! No Sir!

Does the left hip have to slide forward over the left foot before turning out of the way? Does it feel like the weight slides to your toes on the left foot and then to the heel as you rotate your left hip back and is that what is meant by swinging from the ground.
thanks

You don't need to slide over the foot. You want to keep your weight on the inside. A little shoulder turn is unavoidable before you really start to turn. As long as your right shoulder (and your right arm doesn't bring your hands and club outside the plane you're OK.

Weight towards toe on front foot in the back swing. And towards the heel at impact.

You've really hit on an interesting thing here. Somebody wake Bucket up, we'll be talking goat humping here.

If you Slide, 10-14-B (but please dont look at the photos, they've really got to go) parallel to the Angle Of Approach as opposed to parallel to the Arc of Approach your weight will go out over your left toes. (If you're useing the Arc and Slide parallel to it , then your weigth will be less on your toes)

Now if you leave your weight on the toes and then Turn on top of that , you have moved your center of gravity closer to the ball! Another form of the Goat Hump sort of, which can also move the left shoulder, closer to the ball giving you some Radius issues.

So you gotta get your weight off your toes while your turning to keep your "ass on the glass".

Somethin Ted told me about.

"Swinging from the feet" or ground is kinda something different, see 6-M-1 The Downswing Sequence.

I don't wanna say I told ya so....But I Told ya So.

Just use a Hands Controlled Pivot Procedure.

And wild is the wind
 

But I do, you idiet.

We're talking weight shift here. A Zone 1 problem that can influence the Radius and therefor the Hand Path. Even if you are Hands to Pivot previous to the Zone 1 intervention. As can a gust of wind, for that matter. Although you're not Hands to Pivot until the Hands control the wind.....Mike told me about that one.

"Cant you see me walking here", was not a Pivot to Hands problem, it was a car problem. You can be blind sided by your own pivot! A treacherous spasm that takes the #3pp off plane.

I think I've been goat humping for so long that it is ingrained into my swing and hand controlled pivot might be tough to accomplish. Which brings up another question, I've studied the drawings of angle and arc of approach but does hitting require one and swinging the other?

Im normally vehemently opposed to any sort of thread digression but ......

Swinging is always Arc of Approach. Hitting can be either. Although someone once asked Homer if a Swinger could use the Angle of Approach and he said something like......"no, yes .....well he'd have a lot of compensations to make". Sorry.

The simple answer is that if you dont know what the Angle of Approach is your not using it. Its a bit of a weird duck. But the direction that it points is something for everyone to look at and understand , whether you use it, cover it or not!

It looks like Tiger has both arms straight in the last picture there. If that's the case, it's quite amazing...

Dude . . . keep up goat humping and you got no chance of hitting either one . . . . No chance of getting on the proper delivery line . . . . . Work on that first then worry about the theory stuff. You may intend to do one or the other but if your hands are that far out . . . you're basically off the plane angle and plane line.

Where do you club and hands generally "exit" on the thru side? High?

Buck, how does the release of the Hips differ from the hump for the MORAD or S&T guys?

Is the lever later, Dr Lingerlonger?

Same . . . whatever it takes to keep your head centered . . . head on door jam . . . ain't but so many ways the hips CAN MOVE to do it right.

That is what my GSEB taught me last week!
 

I feel strangely united to others...like I am part of something historic, special. It is not agina. I know what that is! :laughing9

Dude , what the heck is agina? You mean like chest pain? I get that sometimes when Im reading D's posts. Like my heart aint got enough oxygen or something.

A historical moment!
 

My presupposition is that Leadbetter/Haney/Harmon, McClain, and every popular teacher and great player can be discussed in relation to TGM as having done several things HK would agree with. Sometimes, those translators of golfing truth use a different way to illustrate golfing insights that I find easier to apprehend and assimilate.

I want to learn how TGM describes these insights and then we can go back in time and better understand the champions of old like old Tom Morris or Bobby Jones.


In Nick Faldo's "Golf-The Winning Formula," Nick Faldo (Leadbetter,pp.88-90), describes 3 ways to "Reverse the Swing." The first is "to feel the left shoulder rise." The second is the "bringing the back elbow down and in." The third, "and only for the most advanced player," is to feel the left knee seperate from the right.


I asked my GSEB about this, today, as he instructed me to come to "neutral knees," before "hitting the ball with my hips." So I noticed the left knee move and asked.

As I practiced coming to neutral, the ball compressed differently and travelled low before climbing the hill to apex and landing softly. It made a different compressing sound and felt effortless.

Why is such a little move so radically effective?

I like that book but Homer had it right and so many years before as well. Its sort of sad that most people couldnt get his book. Anyways, all of those "ways" are really things that happen when reversing the swing, but in sequence. They are not initial moves or whatever. I would suggest that given 6-M-1 its ground up, like Hogan suggested , but with the proviso that it is the Hips that make the Knees appear to do what they do......with the exception of maybe a little left leg extension.

Thanks, OB. That is really reinforcing my lessons.
 

I agree with the idea that most golfing instruction is simply a more colorful meditation on a limited part of TGM.


OB, with your TGM background and effective golfing TQ, how did you learn the "comming to neutral " move? How did you realize that part of TGM was important and how did you learn to do it repeatedly, effectively?


Thanks btw.

Pat

I dont even know what "coming to neutral" means.

Someone has got to give "City" a Yellow Book.

I have the 6th edition from a MN friend.
 

I read it in between fights at school. When my instructor talks about a part, I read it . When you fellas talk about a part, I read that! I would also rather read this forum and take TGM lessons. When I read the book, it is disorientating. Still, I will do it this summer using two copies so I can have a ready reference.

Moi