RIght wrist bend
 

I can't find what I'm looking for re right wrist bend.

Somewhere in my mind it has been imprinted that the right wrist should have constant bend from fix to low point. However, it doesn't quite match up with what I see on the videos. And it seems to somehow place restrictions in the sense that the release will be a function of Accumulator #4 angle if the right wrist bend is held constant.

So - for instance with a snap relase - perhaps with downstroke loading too - should the right wrist bend be increased in the down stroke towards release?

It certainly looks like that has happened in Yoda's stroke here (down right):



Thx,

Bernt

Couldn't a hitter have a bend of 90 degrees at top then use it on the way down to elbow plane and have 120 degree bend and keep it frozen thru impact?

No I don't think it can be any other way.

G@###it, I failed to ask the right question!

What about right wrist bend. That's what I was looking for: Does it increase when the elbow is straightened (for snap release)?

Bad mistake on my behalf. I'll edit my first post if I can.

No! Right Arm extension is independent of Right Hand Bend. In fact Homer called this golf's unique move; the extension of the right arm either passively (swinging) or actively (hitting) with the Right Hand held in its Impact Fix degree of Bend. A motion not typically found in other sports. Basically Homer wanted us to learn to extend our right arms while being able to maintain various amounts of right hand bend (given ball placement, Fix alignments).

The Swinger starting at Adjusted Address with a Flat Right/Bent Left set of hands
must establish his Impact Hands Alignment (Bent Right/Flat Left) dynamically, normally during Startup. The Hitter on the other hand, having started with Impact Hands from Fix , needs only to maintain that alignment. Any additional Right Hand bend will have an associated Arching motion to the Left Hand. This is unwanted Horizontal Left Wrist Motion (although a tad of Arch is often viewed as insurance against the dreaded bending left wrist. As a side note some of the arch you see at impact is really a product of grip type and shaft lean and not a true Horizontal left wrist motion).

Yes but I think the pictures tells another story. If you look at Hogan and Lynn, they both have a lot of bend on the bottom pictures. Their righ forearm has a very acute angle to the club shaft. Probably less than 90 degree. They weren't nowere near that at address. That's for sure.

As the hands move away from the shoulder and the right elbow is straightened, one of two things must happen:

1) Accumulator #2 will be released together with Accumulator #1. Straigtening the right elbow with a stiff left wrist will uncock right wrist. That is of course essential in the hitter's procedure who drives the primary lever assembly (and the secondary too):

2) Accumulator #1 will be released first and Acc #2 will be saved for later. That would be the swinger with snap release procedure. But in order for that to happen, the right wrist must cock or bend or do SOMETHING that doesn't uncock the left wrist.

I can hold the club the way Yoda does on the bottom picture, perhaps not with an equally aqute angle. But if I freeze the right wrist right there and try to assume a normal address position with that very same right wrist alignments I can't do it.

Bent & level at the top and at impact - yes. But just prior to release: I just can't do it unless I start the release early. I wouldn't be pressing this issue if I was 100% sure. I'm not sure. I'm just trying to connect the dots here.

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but imho the right wrist bends "back on itself" during the backswing, so at the top/end it is at a right angle to & under the left arm/clubstaft plane. Due to the body's restriction it cannot bend any further (without arching the left wrist as well). The extra bend apparent from both pictures is caused by the camera angle (capturing a 3D position in 2D). If you look at the same swing position DTL you'd see the right wrist angle didn't increase. Take a look at Sergio Garcia and you'll see that what appears to happen face-on doesn't when viewed DTL. What can increase in the downsing is the left wrist cock.

1f
 

I have found that maintaining the degree fix of right wrist bend from fix to impact has a lot to do with the function and location of your right elbow. For a long time I consciously tried to keep the right wrist bend constant. The fact is if you run out of right arm the right wrist has little choice but to flatten. Bent right elbow usually equals bent right wrist. Bent right wrist usually means flat left wrist.

Actually I think you have to increase the bend (hush: and/or the w-r-i-s-t c-o-c-k) on the right forearm to hold accumulator #2 while you release accumulator #1 / #4.

Whether you run out of right arm through impact depends on how where your right shoulder is. More turn equals more arm.

Close, but no cigar!
 

I attached a pic of myself post impact. I have maintained some of my right wrist bend/flat left wrist alignment. The next pic (cannot locate at the moment) shows the right wrist flattening big time. This shot was a well struck pull-draw. Why? The face is closing a little faster than is best. Why? My right arm straightened a fraction too soon. Why? My right shoulder stayed back as an equal opposite force to my straightening right arm. I can break par with it, but I can get a major case of the "pelosies!" Solution for me is to make sure that my right shoulder drives down plane, preserving my right elbow bend which in turn preserves the right wrist bend.

Isn't a component as well to make sure you are rotating left so you don't lose the amount of bend in the right arm by coming off plane in the follow through? I am asking, I don't know but when I continue to rotate it seems like the right arm stays intact longer and I can maintain the wedge.

Man Okie,

How good was that swing!?!?! :salut:

I've never seen an Okie look that pretty at impact before, nor any South Africans! :)

Kevin

Nice impact Okie,

I wish I was good enough to play par golf with my b-game... Actually I wish I had a b-game. I peak at C :happy3:

I'm not sure what you ment by your "close..." title. Were you referring to my interpretation or your own stroke?

Regarding 1-F: /.../ Right Hand - Clubhead. Left Hand - Clubface. Essentually, the Left Hand should be conciously Monitored (5-0) from Start up (8-4) to Finish () so there will be no unintentional or panicky wobble. See .... And variations in Elbow Bend and/or location during Release will disturb Clubface control by the Right arm, making it an inferior procedurej() /..../

Frankly I am not sure what Homer says here. Is he talking about left or right elbow? It looks like the right to me. But that should be straight anyway so maybe it's the left. And why does he first talk about Left Hand - Clubface and then Right arm - Clubface control? Anyone who knows?

Thanks
 

Thanks Kevin. Do not forget that I am technically an African-American now! I had guts enough to post that picture because I am convinced that more recent pictures will prove to be better!

1-F RIGHT ARM OR LEFT The “mystery” of the Mechanics of Golf fades away when Right Arm participation is understood (6-B-1). Whether its participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually because in either case the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING. But it is always a Left Arm Stroke unless the Right Elbow replaces the Left Shoulder as the center of Clubhead Arc. (10-3-K)

This, alone, does not properly separate “Hitters” and “Swingers” because it is possible to “Swing” the Club with either Arm but only the Right Arm can actually “Hit.” See 10-19. However, you will save yourself much anguish by using the Right Hand just for sensing and controlling acceleration and the Left Hand just for sensing and controlling alignments. Right Hand – Clubhead. Left Hand – Clubface. Essentially, the Left Hand should be consciously Monitored (5-0) from Start Up (8-4) to Finish (8-12) so there will be no unintentional or panicky wobble. See 6-M-0. And variations in Elbow Bend and/or location during Release will disturb Clubface control by the Right Arm, making it an inferior procedure (7-2). Only the Right Arm and Shoulder are in a position to “Push.” Everything else in the Stroke “Pulls.” Study Component 19. So, with or without Shoulder Turn, the Right Arm can contribute Hand Acceleration to the Downstroke and support all elements of “Resistance to Deceleration.”

It has taken me three years to understand 1F well enough for it to make a dent in improving my performance, especially what I underlined in 1F. I have NEVER had purposefull, on command clubface control until now....and then:laughing9 Some of you know what it is like to be a decent golfer with a nemesis. Mine was the pull, his fiesty brother the pull-draw and their deranged cousin pull-hook. Only one of them will destroy a good round as well as a good mood. I may be one of those guys that swears by just one of Homer's insights, and sees little else. The old adage of being good with a hammer...Forgive me if that is my answer to all the ails a particular golf swing! For Bucket it was to stop "goat humping!":salut:

Thank you bernt. By all accounts my post impact look seems to be OK. I wrote "close...but no cigar" to suggest that my pic is not ideal (in that the clubface was rotating closed faster than I want) I hope I did not sound conceited by suggesting that I can break par with my b game. I basically said that I can break par with a motion that can do with some more precision. 1F helped me reconcile the small differences

Precision is reconciling small differences.So in my TGM journey I have discovered the link between right shoulder geometry...right arm bend...and right wrist bend. To me this is right arm participation. Homer said the mystery vanishes when you understand the role of the right arm. I agreed with him as a matter of trust. I now agree with him as a matter of experience.

Thanks
 

Thanks Kevin. Do not forget that I am technically an African-American now! I had guts enough to post that picture because I am convinced that more recent pictures will prove to be better!

1-F RIGHT ARM OR LEFT The “mystery” of the Mechanics of Golf fades away when Right Arm participation is understood (6-B-1). Whether its participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually because in either case the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING. But it is always a Left Arm Stroke unless the Right Elbow replaces the Left Shoulder as the center of Clubhead Arc. (10-3-K)

This, alone, does not properly separate “Hitters” and “Swingers” because it is possible to “Swing” the Club with either Arm but only the Right Arm can actually “Hit.” See 10-19. However, you will save yourself much anguish by using the Right Hand just for sensing and controlling acceleration and the Left Hand just for sensing and controlling alignments. Right Hand – Clubhead. Left Hand – Clubface. Essentially, the Left Hand should be consciously Monitored (5-0) from Start Up (8-4) to Finish (8-12) so there will be no unintentional or panicky wobble. See 6-M-0. And variations in Elbow Bend and/or location during Release will disturb Clubface control by the Right Arm, making it an inferior procedure (7-2). Only the Right Arm and Shoulder are in a position to “Push.” Everything else in the Stroke “Pulls.” Study Component 19. So, with or without Shoulder Turn, the Right Arm can contribute Hand Acceleration to the Downstroke and support all elements of “Resistance to Deceleration.”

It has taken me three years to understand 1F well enough for it to make a dent in improving my performance, especially what I underlined in 1F. I have NEVER had purposefull, on command clubface control until now....and then:laughing9 Some of you know what it is like to be a decent golfer with a nemesis. Mine was the pull, his fiesty brother the pull-draw and their deranged cousin pull-hook. Only one of them will destroy a good round as well as a good mood. I may be one of those guys that swears by just one of Homer's insights, and sees little else. The old adage of being good with a hammer...Forgive me if that is my answer to all the ails a particular golf swing! For Bucket it was to stop "goat humping!":salut:

I am going to post my swing one of these days for the swing jackels out there.

So... Is he talking about left or right elbow bend in 1F? And why is right arm associated with clubface control?

And variations in Elbow Bend and/or location during Release will disturb Clubface control by the Right Arm,

Right arm (or left if you are a warlock) The manner in which the right arm straightens will influence a list of things but particularly the #3 accumulator.

6-B-1-0...Active or Passive, the straightening Right Elbow with its Paddlewheel Action, powers, guides, and regulates the #3 Accumulator Motion..."
6-B-3-0 THE THIRD POWER ACCUMULATOR
Power Accumulator #3 is formed by the angle established between the Clubshaft and the Left Forearm. Accumulator #3 should never be “Out-of-Line – instead, it seeks to MAINTAIN its radial alignment with the Left Arm and Left Wrist vertical to its associated Plane. So, basically, Accumulator #3 Hand Motion (4-D-0) is “Clubface Control,” “Rhythm Control,” and “Roll Power Control” of the Right Elbow (7-3). Study 2-G and 7-20.



I am not suggesting clubface control is a function of the right elbow, but it is without a doubt an influence.

Players that have what I call a "deep impact" e.g. Trevino, Hogan, Furyk etc. have very stable clubfaces that do not flash closed.

This pic of Trevino shows very clearly that having ample right arm bend through the impact zone goes a long way to quieten the clubface. Trevino's just whispers!

Okie,

I think you are right on the elbow bend to clubface control, its something I am playing around with, the deeper I can get it the straighter the ball flight, usually a slight left to right pattern, which I think all three of those golfers above employed.

Well it is what the the right shoulder and elbow allow the left wrist to do most automatically...which in this case is angled hinge. Hinge action is still about what the flat left wrist is doing through the impact interval. Straightening the right elbow initiates the rolling of the #3 Acc. It must of course straighten, just not too soon. Right shoulder geometry/physics is a big key.

Truth . . . . .

Ok, this may relate to the this topic, maybe not but for me its a clubface control closing issue,

The last few days I have been working on getting my left shoulder working more rotationally than linear on the downswing, same thing for the right shoulder, in effect I need more roundhousing and less tilt. This is pulling the right elbow in and then I just rotate low and left, my image is like Hogan.

It feels over the top and off plane....but its not.

I am now just off the turned shoulder plane all the way down and not under plane at all. The shot direction is a straight ball or slight pull fade.

Now also what was interesting to control the shot pattern all I was doing was rotating my stance changing the plane line in relation to the ball target line, for a draw form I set up square, for a straight shot slightly open and for a cut really open.

It worked like I could never imagine, yet one thing was consistent was the way I moved the right left-right shoulder through the ball with no face manipulation.

I assume this is the swinging left that is talked about so much lately but is it really swinging left or just rotating the plane line?