Head movement - 3 dimensions!
 

Hi - my first post here. I'm after some thoughts and advice on stopping excessive head movement.
My tendency is to come over the top and pull shots left. It can be a card wrecker!
I noticed when I watched a video of my swing (down the line) that my head moves slightly down but also it moves 'in' away from the ball (imagine a tortoise). Giving me a crunched neck appearance!
I think it's from having an incorrect transition or perhaps a reaction to a faulty backswing.
My current approach to fixing this is to practice swings with my head resting against a wall or door and trying to keep contact with it through the backswing and downswing and through impact.
This works great without a club in my hand and in the kitchen! :BangHead:
Any help or ideas would be appreciated, thanks.

I wonder if the head moving down and in has the same cause. The knees having more bend at impact than at address is perhaps a common cause.

Sounds like "goat humping". A thrust of the hips towards the Plane Line. A non golf move. You came to the right place.

My name's Friday but you'll meet my partner Bucket. He's the expert on this and everything else thats wrong in the Naked City er Naked Barbequeing.

1 Adam Twelve. Car 54, where are you?

A Tortoise?
 

The stationary head is a basic essential. It is pretty important. In order to make progress you must correct this. The drill you are doing is a good one. Keep on doing it.

It is hard to pull in your neck the way you described. Check if your hips are getting closer to the ball on your downswing or if your knees are sagging through impact.

Uh . . . this could be misinterpreted severely . . . but . . . what do your knees and ass do when you start down? Somebody asked Mike O this once . . . they had to get their entire living room carpet cleaned.

Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong. You wouldn't believe I work for a computer company! I've tried posting replies twice now with a link to a video clip on You Tube of my swing... but the replies don't show up.
Thank you to those who have responded - yes my hips / ass move closer to the ball - my knees do not bend excessively - the head gets lower as I compress and pull in my upper body - lower body pretty much stays at same height e.g. knees/hips etc..
I'll hit return and if this post works I'll try again later with the video clip...

That seemed to work that time...
Here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY88uzwo0IU

OK I just posted a reply to my post above with a link to the video clip - it appeared but when I refreshed the screen it disappeared. So I guess it's been held somewhere waiting for release by a moderator - fair enough. So apologies - when that kicks in there will be three posts of my video clip! Unfortunately they'll all show the same fault :o)

Nice motion. As a drill, go to your impact position looking at a mirror. Where is your head? Mark it on the mirror. Practice short back and through swings starting with your head in that position.

Part of the reason that head motion happens is setting up with the right forearm in a different position than at impact. You have to lower down to get the right forearm in the correct place.

Take a look at Brian Gay's setup in the pics/videos in the gallery - he has a 'level' right wrist, and his forearm is very nearly exactly the same as impact. Supporting impact, inline with the shaft from DTL.

Here is a link to my swing - thanks for taking a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY88uzwo0IU

I'm actually struggling with the same thing. My neck tilts down and away from the target.

I spent about an hour looking at Tour swings and legendary swings and the head doesn't really stay stationary, but it comes really close.

From the face on view, if you draw a circle around a Tour players head at address, it usually has part of the head leave the circle in the backswing, most likely due to the shoulder turn. But on the downswing the head returns to the circle and stays there until about the right arm is parallel to the ground on the follow thru. So it's not exactly stationary, but pretty close.

My head goes outside the circle at about the halfway down and stays out of the circle. It's funny because I still have tape from this year when I was hitting the ball probably the best I've ever hit it and my head was staying in the circle on the downswing.

I think it's probably a bit to do with either:

1. Knee Action
2. Closed Clubface
3. Repeating a Bad Habit.



3JACK

3Jack

Thanks - I've checked out some of your swings and you are right I have a similar tendency. I have seen many examples of good golfers with 'some head' movement. For example a degree of lateral movement on the backswing or head dropping in a vertical plane on the downswing. I would be relatively comfortable if I just did this - I'd be in good company :)
The reason that I titled the post 'three dimensions' is that I also spot this upper neck/check contraction which retracts the neck in and away from the position at address. I can see that movement in your swing too although not as pronounced as mine.
The last three days I've been spending quite a bit of time at the range just hitting wedge shots and trying to keep the head 'out' over the position at address - I'm using a wedge so that I am just hitting soft gentle shots and not trying to swing too hard.
I am coupling it with the drills I mentioned earlier with keeping my head against a door or wall and doing dummy practice swings without a club.
With the wedge work I've noticed a big improvement in the ball flight - it feels as if it's taking off 5 yards further to the right. It's a shame I can't seem to work out how to put a video link in here to show you my predicament.

I'll try it again but instead of making it a URL I'll just paste the text - it means if anyone wants to look they'll have to cut and paste. Apologies.
'www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY88uzwo0IU'

Here ya go.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY88uzwo0IU

Couple of ideas for your consideration.

-the pull might not be directly related to the head pull in. For pull correction research or hit the search function for the following key words: "roundhousing", "startdown waggles", "Turned Shoulder Plane, TSP", "Hip Slide with a Delayed Turn", "Cleared right hip".

-The head pull in thing. By adjusting your body around the RFFW at Impact Fix you will, amongst other things, establish the exact Radius from left shoulder to the ball needed at Impact. This radius, this position in 3D space of the left shoulder, low point, is critical. Once properly established movement in the body, such as a push of the backside towards the target line in transition may alter the position of the left shoulder and change the radius for the worse. For experienced golfers the brain will often, subconsciously, make a corrective move to reestablish the proper radius. A push in of the backside with a corrective pull back of the shoulders is not uncommon.

I find it very interesting that this corrective action which is totally subconscious can be explained using Homers geometry. As if our brains know his geometry while we, consciously anyways, do not.

So the "turtle" can be a corrective action taken to offset a shortening in the radius. The head and neck being attached to the shoulders, of course.

Homer would have us preview our impact alignments at Fix exactly. This relegates the high chin position at address to the scrap heap. The head should be positioned such that you are looking at the ball with a straight gaze, the eyes not looking down the cheeks or anything. This is what you will do at Impact after all. As a side bar, this is really important when putting. A high chin when putting will often have the nose blocking your right eye ball's view of the hole, meaning no stereoscopic vision, no depth perception when the head in its address position. Try a straight gaze, it helps me stop at Top too, instead of getting too long.

Thanks O.B.Left
I tried to maintain a more 'level/straight' upper spine/neck today - I definetly had the feeling previously of looking down my nose/cheeks at the ball just like you mention. The chin 'in' position and straight gaze at the ball as you suggest - certainly felt more comfortable...
Although to be honest - no noticeable improvement / difference with swing but I will keep at it.

Hi Mud Ball,

I just watched your video. Your right hip is almost stationary and doesn't move back during the backstroke. Then, your left hip comes around and in front and ends up closer to the plane line and you stand up. Watch in slow motion.

I wonder if it would help if you delayed the hip turn until your shoulder turn moves them?

OK thanks, so I interpret that as Delayed Hip Action 10-15-B
I didn't quite get it where in the book it says 'Delayed Hip Action is the only Variation that assures "Clearing of the Right Hip" in both directions. What I don't get is why 'Delayed' and not 'Standard'. I can see how Zero can't assure clearing - as it doesn't move and is therefore not doing anything. But Standard - that foxed me. Anyway - thanks for the tip Daryl. I may incorporate that delay.
I'm finding it difficult to actually make changes - I've been playing so long it's like asking someone to 'blink' differently... My body is so worn into its own slot that making a new groove feels very very very hard and in the slip of a moment I can sneak back to a bad habit without realising. So I probably won't do the hip action piece this week - I'll stay with the head drill for another week before trying to add the delayed hip action I think...

Work it out whatever way you want but the right hip needs to move back during the backstroke.

See if it works.

I have had some issues with getting the clearing of the right hip which forces me to push the club to my right in the backswing before I can bend the right arm...throws it off plane from the start.

I was working with the pre turned hip as outline in 10-15-B and it helped but the one thing that it was hard to get over was the feeling I was closed to the target line. I am sure I was probably closing down my shoulders when the hips were preset. I am going to mess around with this some more because I think its going to play a big role in getting the backstroke fundamentals down.