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-   -   The Right Shoulder (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6751)

KOC 06-19-2009 09:29 AM

The Right Shoulder
 
In the 7th edition, Homer in the Preface added..."If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!" (my signature) which did not appeared in the 6th edition.

While surfing the net lately, I found something quite interesting...here is the quotes:-

The right shoulder - We know that better players rotate the right shoulder very nicely down the plane and down the target line. Yes, that has been said and observed thousands of times.

But WHY?

The right shoulder performs two functions - one is putting body mass behind the piston movement of the right elbow. So connecting the body weight into the right elbow with put enormous more momentum into the contact with the ball and transfer more energy to the ball. It is like being hit by a bicycle or a 10-ton truck both moving at the same speed. Which is going to do more damage and transfer more energy?

Obviously, the 10-ton truck. So get your body weight better connected and behind the right elbow for more power. OK - that is easy to understand. But the second function of the right shoulder is more subtile. Imagine a dog leash. The dog is free to move for a certain distance. But when is gets to the end of the leash, it is suddenly stopped. The rigth shoulder is similar. IF the right shoulder moves down the swing plane and down the target line, the right elbow can stay bent with all of its power for a very late hit.

That is the dog leash is still loose enough to allow the right elbow to explode into the ball. However, if the right shoulder turns on a plane flatter than the swing plane, the right elbow will start opening up - that is loosing power - before it is even near the ball. The right elbow is “leaking power" because the unconscious minds says “You must hit the ball!" and the only way to hit the ball with a shoulder rotating more flat that the swing plane is by opening up the right elbow. The right elbow cannot explode into the ball because it is already opened up and can move only a short distance before it is at the “end of it’s leash."

Haha...the dog leash!

Andy R 06-19-2009 10:58 AM

One basic reason would be, all things being equal, a steeper shoulder plane would leave the face open, while a flatter shoulder plane would close the face prematurely.

Scottgas2 06-19-2009 05:49 PM

H
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy R (Post 65310)
One basic reason would be, all things being equal, a steeper shoulder plane would leave the face open, while a flatter shoulder plane would close the face prematurely.

Now there's an AhHah moment. The flatter shoulder turn would thereby promote hooking the ball? I have noticed, several instructors stating that lowering the right shoulder is necessary to tilt the hips improving the pivot. I think they are promoting a vertical drop of the right shoulder before the pivot rather than right shoulder travel down a plane to the ball. This is a bit confusing.

12 piece bucket 06-20-2009 01:05 PM

Right Shoulder is a HUGE GEOMETRY PIECE HUGE HUGE HUGE . . . Remember it is a part of the Power Package . . . A Right Shoulder that isn't moved with the correct amount of precision can cause plane line shifting and bending . . . the Hands can only do so much to overcome Shoulder Motion (steming from Knee Action, Hip Action, Axis Tilt) that isn't in compliance with the selected Plane Angle.

Daryl 06-20-2009 01:27 PM

The Hands Direct the Pivot to
Move the Right Shoulder to
Move the Right Elbow to
Move the Right Forearm to
Direct the Hands.
Right Hand Clubhead
Left Hand Clubface

The Right Shoulder is the part of the Pivot that directs the entire Power Package. Force and Alignment in one component.

12 piece bucket 06-20-2009 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 65394)
The Hands Direct the Pivot to
Move the Right Shoulder to
Move the Right Elbow to
Move the Right Forearm to
Direct the Hands.
Right Hand Clubhead
Left Hand Clubface

The Right Shoulder is the part of the Pivot that directs the entire Power Package. Force and Alignment in one component.


Add knees hips and spine and you gots it covered.

Andy R 06-21-2009 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 65392)
Right Shoulder is a HUGE GEOMETRY PIECE HUGE HUGE HUGE . . . Remember it is a part of the Power Package . . . A Right Shoulder that isn't moved with the correct amount of precision can cause plane line shifting and bending . . . the Hands can only do so much to overcome Shoulder Motion (steming from Knee Action, Hip Action, Axis Tilt) that isn't in compliance with the selected Plane Angle.

Couldn't agree more. An on plane right shoulder in the downswing is not an option, it is mandatory for Acquired to Full motions.

The hardest part for me was allowing the right shoulder to play it's proper role while Swinging - but Chuck Evan's vids over at Medicus eventually cleared the fog for me.

KOC 06-21-2009 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy R (Post 65425)
Couldn't agree more. An on plane right shoulder in the downswing is not an option, it is mandatory for Acquired to Full motions.

The hardest part for me was allowing the right shoulder to play it's proper role while Swinging - but Chuck Evan's vids over at Medicus eventually cleared the fog for me.


What is the title of the video over there?

Daryl 06-22-2009 08:16 AM

Just some thoughts. Plane Angles are alignments, not positions.

A three dimensional impact occurs when the Clubshaft revolves end over end and travels on that same plane. If you grabbed the grip of the club and throw the club so that it revolves end over end, it will seek to revolve in its own plane. Plane Shifts are hazardous. Any golfer that downshifts to the Elbow Plane should first drop the Clubshaft onto that plane. If not, you'll still have Impact, but not three-dimensional because the Clubshaft is jerked off plane.

Homer Kelley's Power Package has the Right Forearm Flying Wedge (Bent and Level Right Wrist) control both Alignments (end over end and within the same Plane). When the Right Shoulder Moves, it moves the Right Elbow. It must move the Right Elbow on the Plane of the Clubshaft so that the Right Forearm can support the Clubshaft through the Release and Impact intervals. Then, the Shaft will remain bent (stressed) at Impact.

So, the Alignment of the Clubshaft at the Top of the Backswing should be Pre-Aligned with whatever Impact Plane Angle you’ve chosen.

The Plane is whatever Inclined Angle the Clubshaft is revolving on. If you adopt the "Power Package" structure of the Golfing Machine, then according to the Theory, the Right Elbow will be On Plane when the Hands and Right Shoulder are On Plane. Actually, the Power Package has the Hands, Left Arm, Clubshaft and Right Elbow and Right Triceps muscle control the Right Shoulder Location. Then, design a Pivot to Push the Right Shoulder Down that Plane while allowing the Right forearm to be On Plane during the Release and Impact Intervals.

Andy R 06-22-2009 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 65442)
....Then, design a Pivot to Push the Right Shoulder Down that Plane while allowing the Right forearm to be On Plane during the Release and Impact Intervals.

That's along the lines of something else you said a while back;

"Going to the top of the swing should put your body in alignment to swing down."

That has been a major deal for me. It has brought me around to thinking things like "Why do you make a backswing? - So you can achieve proper impact alignments."

A backswing is a means to an end - no more.

So lately, I've been treating my backswing as just that, and the result is my head stays beautifully stationary, my old little slide right at startup is basically no longer a slide, and I can monitor my impact fix alignment through impact.

Brilliant stuff, Daryl.

Andy R 06-22-2009 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOC (Post 65428)
What is the title of the video over there?

In the training course in the Full Swing section, as a hitter, Day 21 has three drills, as a swinger two. I'm sure there's some stuff in the pitch section too.

In the video vault, check out "Role of the Right Shoulder", "Shoulder Turn Throw" although the right shoulder is not mentioned specifically, "Right Shoulder Motion - Hitting vs Swinging", "Right Shoulder Direction".

I'm sure it's mentioned in several other vids about pivot and downstroke too.

Hope that helps. :)

addamsmith 09-22-2009 11:19 PM

Hi Guys
Is there a drill I can use to practice the right position and move with the right shoulder.
I would really appriciate any help with this.
Also I am a swinger not a hitter so are there different drills for both.
Thanks
Addam

okie 09-23-2009 04:34 PM

Laissez-faire Approach
 
There are numerous drills e.g. shooting the plane line drill, but what I have found helpful is to locate where the shoulder would be for a properly executed follow though. In essence start with the end in mind! Follow though and the finish are not one in the same for a total motion stroke. Learning the differnce has made all the difference. Buy the Alignment Golf DVD. DVD # 2 is just drills divided according to the three zones.

drewitgolf 09-25-2009 08:24 AM

mc"Nabb"ed this oldie but goodie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by addamsmith (Post 67820)
Hi Guys
Is there a drill I can use to practice the right position and move with the right shoulder.
I would really appriciate any help with this.
Also I am a swinger not a hitter so are there different drills for both.
Thanks
Addam

Originally Posted by kmmcnabb
"You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.

This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling."

I have been using this drill with my students for quite sometime with great success. In fact, I gave this drill during my presentation yesterday on TGM to PGA Golf Professionals in the New England Section :) .

addamsmith 09-25-2009 07:05 PM

Thanks Guys
I have just ordered the DVD as well.
Cheers
Addam

mb6606 09-25-2009 10:32 PM

Rifle drill
Take your stance. Place a dowel against your right shoulder like shooting a rifle. Move your right shoulder down plane keeping the dowel pointed at the plane line.

jerry1967 10-01-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 67843)
Originally Posted by kmmcnabb
"You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.

This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling."

I have been using this drill with my students for quite sometime with great success. In fact, I gave this drill during my presentation yesterday on TGM to PGA Golf Professionals in the New England Section :) .

Where does the grip point in the backswing?

drewitgolf 10-01-2009 01:46 PM

Lucky 13
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry1967 (Post 67943)
Where does the grip point in the backswing?

It depends on which variation of the Shoulder Turn (10-13) you use. If you use a Standard Shouder Turn 10-13-A the grip may point more in front of you, where as a Rotated Shoulder Turn 10-13-C the grip may point more at the ball...choices.

jerry1967 10-02-2009 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 67952)
It depends on which variation of the Shoulder Turn (10-13) you use. If you use a Standard Shouder Turn 10-13-A the grip may point more in front of you, where as a Rotated Shoulder Turn 10-13-C the grip may point more at the ball...choices.

As a swinger is one better than the other?

drewitgolf 10-03-2009 09:54 AM

...and I did it "My WAY" !
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry1967 (Post 67976)
As a swinger is one better than the other?

Nope, My Way vs. The Way.


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