As good as Hogan...
 

Stumbled across this swing on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro7ay...eature=related

At 24 seconds witness some of the best impact alignments on any tour!

48 m/s is 107 mph!! 5 foot 2 inches!!!

Have to admit that I had never heard of her but wiki say:-

"She dominated the U.S. LPGA Q-School and secured her tour card, enabling her to compete in the 2006 season. She finished under par for five of the six qualifying rounds, and finished 12 strokes ahead of the closest competitor, setting a record for the largest margin of victory on December 4, 2005"

Sorry . . . but that's some blasphemy there dude . . . I love you, but Mr. Hogan? Sorry Dawg . . . . not even in the same galaxy.

OK...so I went heavy on the marketing...but then you got to compete in this forum for attention!

Not as far apart as you are making it though ...

I have got no skills or software to get the still from that youtube to compare with this:-



What I am seeing Bucket is the right forearm being moved into impact ...1-F..."the left arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the right forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING"...

Not many other players get the right arm that bent at impact...especially on the LPGA tour...not many "swingvision" on the LPGA... Creamer does...but with a massive dip...right forearm more funky on Gulbis:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jviToMF5kYk

Miyazato does a great job - not perfect - but she has pretty goood right forearm motion IMO!

OK . . . . but let me ask you . . . . the right forearm on plane with the shaft I get . . . but is having the right arm way bent always a good thing?

I guess that depends on the position of the right shoulder, axis tilt, delivery path and probably... ball position ...I think...use impact fix to determine the appropriate amount of right elbow bend...

But...I suspect that if you can keep any degree of bend in it I think that the player has a greater sense of right forearm which would facilitate the onplane right forearm...i think...

You think it would be easier to create more geometric perfection with Ai's swing or Nat's or Morgan's or Julietta's (see below)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqL4XVT0JM8

Can't imagine why we don't discuss more women's golf on this site...youtube does not have alot of good slo-mo stuff.

Hogan, in the Pic above looks like he released a little earlier than he likes. Every stroke ins't perfect.

The Girl is almost perfect. Hands, Head and Hips should be 3" farther ahead. That would also give a little shaft lean. At the Top she gets a little behind, just a little lateral slide off the ball, but in her downstroke her head drops back a little more. She probably just couldn't get back to center this time.

The Frames are missing, but I bet her Start-down procedure includes moving her Right Knee inward rather than or including a lateral slide. That would explain a lot.


5'-2" Chick; Awesome.
Elbow Plane
Shoulder Turn Take-away
Pivot Contolled Hands
Typical Pro

Thanks for doing the picture, Daryl. I agree about the head moving back for impact seemingly a compensation. Not sure why she ahs not won in US yet...shortgame is usually what the really good young pros always say is not as good as the really battle hardened pros!

But imagine a world where the young pros start on tour looking like her or even better....54 here we come! Then to make courses harded they stop lengthening them ...they go back to 1970s equipment....fairways only 10 yards across...balls that are so unstable that they swerve at least 3 ways in flight (draw - fade - draw...etc) and in my case... gimmes inside of ten feet when you hit the GIR (3 feet gimme from a bunker....2 feet for a pitch/chip)... Welcome to Hoganville!! putters not required!

Then precision alignment is rewarded!

You guys have lost your minds . . . . Hogan threw it a little? The freakin' ball is on a piece of silly puddy??? And his wedges are PERFECT. Now don't get me wrong this chick has a nice golf swing but to give her perfect and Hogan a nick is CRAZY. Look ath her right heel . . . Popped up . . . she's getting her axis tilt by dipping her head back . . . look at Hogan's right heel . . . plus her grip type is way different. Plus she's lifting and spinning . . . Hogan has very minimal shifts stays really close to the elbow plane the whole time . . . and thru the ball the club and face just don't deviate period.

And do you really want a bunch of shaft lean with a driver? Launch conditions man . . . the less loft then the less lean if you wanna hit it up . .


Put up the sequences . . . this chick has a nice golf swing . . . but perfect nope.

Bucket-man, no need to get in a tizz!!! I agree with all you comments about heel pop up, head go back...etc...I never said she was "as good as Hogan - period"...It was "as good as hogan..." ;) but it has been fun to pull you pigtails !...just confusing how you managed to plait your back hair so well!:laughing9

Does right elbow bend at impact mean shaft lean always...doesn't it depend on ball position??

It's Hogan . . . as in Hogan . . . Mr. Hogan. Anyway . . . not in no tizzy . . . but to your question.

You want the PROPER amount of right elbow bend for the shot at hand . . . depending on Plane Angle, shaft lean, Pivot, Axis Tilt, shape and trajectory at hand. You want to make the club work like a club. Now having a bunch of Right Elbow bend could also indicate that you didn't fire your Accumulators too . . .

Couple of thoughts on the two photos above;

1. Ben Hogan chose the amount of shaft lean he wanted for the shot at hand. In this case, Im thinking he's in a film studio somewhere, they took his swing to the studio and its stroboscopic lighting for high speed photography. It was decided to have him hit off of sand, a divot would send the sand everywhere and necessitate a reset , re rake every take. The sand spray would be visible in the photo. For some reason they decided to avoid this by having him hit off of a sand tee, old school and not take a divot. He complied, easily and adjusted his machine accordingly, positioning the ball closer to low point, thereby taking out most of the down and out. A sweeping type golf shot off a relatively high tee, which was probably not formed by Hogan but by the Propsmaster. It is an usual sort of shot for Hogan or any good golfer to make on a golf course. Ben Hogan would normally take a divot and not tee the ball so high. He didnt hit many floaters with a mid iron. Other photos from this session show an usual for Hogan full release of the club at about Follow Through as well. I think it is all for a reason. Hogan would never release the club to that degree or verge on throwaway unless he wanted to, needed to. Here he did.

2. I havent looked at her swing videos but in this photo she is for sure hanging back a bit. Perhaps for a higher launch angle, perhaps its a habit. Im thinking she has a lot of pressure on her right toes, thats gotta hurt a bit. If this photo is taken from a position square to her plane line and that is the ball that can be seen leaving the frame then she actually made contact with it a little earlier with the club a little further back. So she maybe doesnt tee the ball directly opposite her low point at address but back of it as a compensation for her hang back, her low point moving back dynamically in her swing.

Im thinking she should be just making contact with the ball in this photo and a little more off her right side unless its for launch angle reasons. She is risking injury if she sways back like this on every shot.

Or I could be way wrong again.

Guys - I think alot of interesting detail has come out of this thread - thanks!

To recap :- right arm bend should be proportional to the shot in hand based on : right shoulder position, ball position, club selection ...(add in as required) BUT too much right elbow bend at impact can be a problem (rare in amateurs) but can arise from too much lean back..? Fair summary?? Correct please if errors.

But I think that I should have put in a "2-R" type paragraph...a disclaimer....the video IMO - shows a young pro who is approaching some precision alignments which certainly rival anyone of her tours (LPGA and Japanese Ladies - not sure of the acronym!) ...my headline was not meant to be a direct challenge to Hogan...just a teaser to get some looks!

Could it be better?...yes...is it better than the other women's swings that I posted youtube links to?...IMO...yes...but then there was a reason why Hogan kept practising after he retired...fun and also getting even better..."perfection is the journey not the destination..." (made that up as far as I know but sounds so cheesy it must be a quote from somewhere)

Re. "Mr Hogan" etc..."Mr" Bucket stay calm - please note I always use "Mr" when I am serving in my capacity as a Medic to a patient...(in this case venereologist but we won't go there...or at least that is what I told 12PB - "don't go there!!!" I advised ;))....but with sports heroes I am OK with surname or first name...Tiger, Jack, Bradman (I'm english so I won't say "The Don"...scored too many runs against us to be that friendly)...Botham (or Beefy) ...Gazza...Cloughie...etc...no less respectful...I love the guy ( 3 copies of "Power Golf", 1 "modern Fundamentals"...all the biographies...DVDs...(including "Follow the Sun") ...even shelled out for "Maximum Golf"...to see if John Schlee got the real inside story!!!...got at least one club from every iron set Hogan produced from 1959 - 1976....just to see how his brain was working when it came to club design)... I could go on...I am a Hogan nut!!!:golf:

But less of my symptoms...how is that rash Bucket-man!:liar: :laughing9 :laughing9

OK . . . I took your bait hook line and sinker huh? I gotta think there are swings as good as this chick's on the LPGA tour though.

I good excuse to watch a bit more golf...?

Suzann Pettersen has some of the better alignments. Kerr, Pressel, Blomqvist, Wendy Ward as well. For Hogan type move, see Kathrine Hull (not fully, but similar style). Certainly Creamer's alignments at impact. She has some of the best compression on the LPGA, better than Pettersens in terms of impact sound.

Impact alignments dont include body positions I'm assuming , nothing similar to Hogan in any of them as far as body motion

Aha moment
 

[. . she's getting her axis tilt by dipping her head back . . . ]

I little bulb just went off...thanks Bucket!