Basic Motion questions
 

Thanks in advance to all. A little about my swing. I have been playing for over 20years and have always been a flipper and thus consistency has suffered. I can't remember if ever I got true compression. I know I did sometimes with punches under tress out of the rough etc..But I never realized then that to fix the flip I must have flat left wrist and bent right wrist. Impact alignment is so crucial.
I am on all the major forums and have all of Brian Manzella's videos but just can't get past the flip in my full swing, although I am getting better. I have the Tour Stiker and Jeff Evan's pure ball striker to help me out.
I have my degree in Exercise Physiology , so I really enjoy all the TGM talk and theory. I have watched nearly all the videos on here and have watched Lynn's lesson with Collin also.

So on to my question. I went at lunch today and probably did about 100 basic motion shots with 8, PW, 60'. I got in exaggerated impact fix and tried to only go 2 back and 2 through.
Tried to freeze that bent right wrist and really feel PP3 and PP1. At first it was difficult I was hitting some squirters off to the right, then I realized that I was getting into impact I was actually opening my clubface so I fixed that and the squirters stopped.

I still at times hit behind the ball but the last half of the session got much better as I felt like I was heel punching with my right hand, keeping the PP's all there and trying to keep that flying wedge in tact. It felt like I was more aggressive down to the ball. I started hearing these click sounds off the clubface, I assume that's right? Hitting the ball first? Almost all the shots were vertical hinging as that just seemed natural for basic motion. I can tell you that my right elbow and arm are sore right now. I didn't see any major divots , am I supposed to in basic motion? However , I did have grass up to say the 4th groove on the face.

Does this all sound good? And what could be the cause of those occasional squirters to the right? I know that when I hit behind the ball I was probably losing my angles. Any help is greatly appreciated as I begin my journey to actually start hitting the ball the correct way.

thanks
Joe

When do you think that you begin release? Where are your hands in relation to the ball?? one foot behind? two feet behind? 3" behind? 6" behind? Are they at the Ball?

The Clubhead passes your hands because your hands slow.....Where are your hands when they begin to slow??? Are they 6" past the ball?

Daryl

you wrote:

"When do you think that you begin release?"

In basic motion I am not releasing. I am trying to hold those angles

"Where are your hands in relation to the ball?"
I was setup with the hands well forward out my front foot to my eye/aim point"

I agree that I flipped when I slowed I think, when I was more agressive it was crisper. When I was more agressive I could feel the PP's in my hand and like I said my right arm is sore right now,,hope that's right.


The two major misses was the "bury the club behind the ball and the squirter to the right.
With such a short shot, I think the squirter had to be clubface although I could be wrong. The flipped/fat shots were loss of impact angles.

Was that click I was hearing the right impact sound?
Should there be noticeable divots past the ball with just basic motion, or just a small one?

How far are you hitting the ball?

How can your right arm get sore doing Basic Motion? Your not supposed to fling-hit with your right arm. Do you have a flat left wrist throughout the stroke?

Divots? You're taking Divots? :naughty: Are you slingin a Sledge Hammer?

Zero out the #3 Accumulator by moving the grip of the club into the palm of your left hand (lifeline), and add your right hand. (baby steps) Are you using a Single Action Grip?

Now, two feet back and two feet past the ball. Stop moving your shoulders on the backswing.

Do you feel the Left arm press against the chest on the backswing?

Let me know the answers. :)

Did you read this thread? It may be helpful. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=6622

I know you have long answer in there, and I have read the thread yes, didn't want to threadjack it. Just wanted to make sure I was on the right track to compression and a better swing.

Thanks so much for taking the time with me
Joe

Yes - the 'click' is a very good thing. On short shots, a click, on full shots - the sound of a rifle shot. (sizzle)

Divots are a good thing. The low point of the clubhead is under the ground, in front of the ball, so even short shots can have a divot (or at least show that you hit down to the ground, a scuff for a chip). Not a big chunk, but a smooth fairly thin divot. (wide thin divots for full shots a few inches long).

Focus on that 'click'. You can both feel, and hear, a good shot, from the putter to the driver.

Daryl
See answers below

well went again today,,probably 120 basic motions.
I had replied last night and today to Daryl's posts, but I guess my login timed out while I was replying and it said my post had to be approved by mod and it hasn't shown up yet.

Today I used 9i and 56'. At first all seemed well. Was getting the nice click on the face ball was about 6' in the air traveling 20yds. Then I went to the 56' and it got worse. It seems that the more loft the club has the tougher it gets for me. I hit the squirters to the right with the 56' at first. Then I realized I was swinging left and thus when my hands went left it was opening the clubface and shooting shots off the hosel. This happened if my hands were in front or not. So I made an effort to swing out down the plane line until arms straight and the contact improved.

later on I started having some throwaway and hitting the behind the ball. It felt like I was losing rhythm and was just jabbing at it. What seemed to help this was making sure I felt PP#3 behind the shaft and PP#1. Then I just thought of driving the bent wrist and PP#3 to the ball.

So It seems must remeber to:
1) feel the PP's in my hand
2) don't quit on the stroke and give it a good 3d pop as Lynn says
3) don't swing across my body to the left, it leads to an open clubface.

Does this sound right??
thanks to all
Joe

Sounds like you're on a good path, although I think I would start incorporating some acquired motion as a way to 'advance to the next level.'

Feels are subjective. One feel that may work for me may be hazardous for you and vice versa. I was out on the range after a round today and something weird happened today. I actually hit the ball the best I've hit it the last 3 days (and for the year for that matter), but when I got on the range after the round I started hitting it worse. The prior 2 days I would get on the course and start 'leaking oil' on the last 3 holes or so and then I would go back to the range after the round and hit it really really great.

But once I started to lose it today on the range, just go back to basic motion, then acquired motion. Now, I'm armed with better knowledge of what swing feels work for me, so the cure was more easily obtained.

While the feels are subjective, many time golfers experience similar problems. I still have some 'over the top' tendencies when I concentrate on trying to keep a FLW at impact. I think Lynn's 'Holies and Poleies' video talks about a great way to cure that.




3JACK

Most of it sounds ok Joe.

some issues:

1. Zero out the #3 Accumulator. Move the Grip of the Club up into the lifeline of the left hand. Now you'll have angled hinging. More important is that you removed some variables so that you can focus on what's to learn in basic motion.

2. If you fan your right forearm during the Take-away, you should feel a lot of pressure from your left arm crashing into your chest. Are you moving your left shoulder? That's the only reason I can think of that would prevent you from feeling the pressure. Don't move your left shoulder during the takeaway. Stay centered facing the ball. Are you using Extensor Force to pull your left arm straight, downward and across your chest?

3. Are you a Hitter? Why are you thrusting your right arm? Even hitters need to learn basic motion by driving (moving) the right shoulder toward the plane-line. Your Head is the Pivot Center and your right shoulder will move your left shoulder around the Center (your head) Learn this before you start pushing with your right forearm. Then you'll have a better understanding of when and how to use the right forearm if you decide to push.

It's all about the "Flying Wedges".

Your club should remain a simple extension of your left arm (Flat Left Wrist, Primary Lever).

Others may move things independently forward for demonstration purposes, but keep the "Basic Motion" very basic. It will teach you three dimensional impact, power package structure, etc.

During the Backstroke, because of your fanning right forearm and stationary left shoulder and downward extensor force and flat left wrist and level right wrist, your arms align to the geometry of the Flying Wedges. On the forward stroke keep them Aligned this way, or assembled-structured. Learn to swivel this Power Package around your stationary head by using a little thrust from your right shoulder. Your Power Package should feel like a merry-go-round with your head at its Pivot Point.

Thanks Richie, I follow you blog daily. I try to get my basic motion looking like you flying wedge drill but a shorter motion.
My main culprit is throwaway, I am so hoping TGM can help me with that. The ingrained buliding blocks of flat left wrist and bent right. When you have flipped your whole life it's so tough to get that out of your muscle memory.

I could hit the impact bag or Ben's tire 50 times and do it right, still that full swing I would lose my flying wedges and my impact alignments. So, I am basically having to re-learn impact while still playing rounds at the same time with friends.

I have always been a good chipper with forward shaft lean and ball first contatc. It's just trying to find that light of when the right arm gets parallel or higher and trying to get back to impact with the proper angles. I must make sure the pivot is sound as well. I am now using Ben Doyle's setup routine and setting up with right forearm as close to on plane as I can. Then I try to fan that right arm and just turn.

When I think hard about aiming point, hands forward, compress down in a full swing I hit some nasty flying slices out to the right. It seems the more forward my hands are, the more open the clubface. I think this it due to a poor pivot and just becoming armsy and lunging down at the ball.

Oh, to be able to take a forward divot in a full swing and not just flip and pick it sky high and lose distance...It's the bain of my existence!!!

The bolded section is where I think my confusion stems from.. It doesn't matter if you are hitter or swinger, you are simply powering this small movement with a push from your right shoulder, correct?

Thanks..

Charley

Yep. A push down toward the Plane-line.

The good news is that it can be straightened out. Here's some progress I've made, with the top pic being less than a month ago (it may be hard to see since it has a black graphite shaft, but if you look closely you can see the club shaft going down by my left foot with a flip action of the wrists)



Now here's an impact position I taped on Tuesday.



So, don't give up hope. I played with a flip for 20 years. I'm not some golfing genius by any stretch.

One of the brilliant parts of Homer Kelley's work is the drills give the golfers the correct mechanics and then let the golfer come up with their own subjective feel.

Once I understood that, my swing and game improved. In fact, I believe I looked like the top pic last week. Once you get it, you will 'own it' and probably laugh at really how simple and easy it is. Then curse the fact that you wish you were doing this all along.

Just keep doing the drills, with basic motion first, then acquired, then full motion and concentrate on feel and that will be the gateway to golf swing nirvana.



3JACK

Jack, it looks good. Maybe a tad more bend at the Hips to keep them a little more behind you and to put a little more bend in your right arm at impact. Then, change your name to Ben.

Problem is I cannot find any of those white caps to fit my gigantic cranium.

I played the other Saturday with my old man and a friend and as my friend was about to hit he said 'heads up!' and my old man told him not to bother yelling that because if it hit me in the head it would probably just plug.

Of course, I don't what the ruling is on an embedded lie from the skull.





3JACK

thanks 3Jack. I must remember to take it slow, step by step. I ordered the Alignment Golf DVD's yesterday.
But when you have been playing for so long, it's tough not to want to go out slap at balls all day. However, I am going to go through the stages this time. Since I can now do generic basic motion with a forward leaning shaft, I am going to start callng my hing action before each shot. To learn to be able to control that flat wrist. I will probably have to make a tad longer swing than basic motion in order to get horizontal or angled. Or I may be wrong and I "should" be able to get all 3 in short basic motion?? Correct??

thanks
Joe

Another session at lunch today, about 200 balls in groups of 25 with 8, PW, 60'. It was the best day so far I feel.
Watching Yoda's "Holie - Polie" video really helped with getting the right forearm motion. And the first 3 or 4 balls of each group I did right arm only with the exact same process of the video- imagine forearm on a table in front of you, get it horizontal and then bend over to the ball keeping the club and forearm in line.

I even, near the end, starting moving to small baby pitches with a left wrist cock. Some were good, some I hit behind the ball but today I had more "clicks" off the face than ever before.

I can really start to feel that right wrist bend and keeping PP#3 active. The left just feels like it is doing nothing more than holding it's initial alignment. It's almost like it feels like I am hitting the ball with a lagged "pop" of PP#3.

Now I have to get the pitch down and keep on that basic and do the right arm only drills. It seems hard to imagine getting that same feel from basic into my whole swing. Should be fun, let's hope!!

thanks
Joe

Where can I find the "Holie-Polie video?

it is here:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...nd-Polies.html

under the gallery, free videos, LBG Reality TV section

Thank you very much!!!

Until watching this video, I was unable to incorporate the on plane right forearm flying wedge into my swing - it was just was too uncomfortable and I just flat out could not make it work.

But after watching the video, and practicing the right arm only drill, I went back to two hands, applied Extensor Action, fanned my right arm like Daryl says you should, picked it straight up as OB said Ted says you should, and hit shot, after shot, after shot dead solid, with perfect compression.

Once again, thanks you Lynn, the LBG crew, and Chuck Evans, I finally made it! :happy3:

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You're welcome, Andy R!