Hanging back on rear leg
 

I'd appreciate your ideas as to the causes and cure for this malady. Horribly fat shots are the result. I know that I'm supposed to be on my front leg at impact and into the finish, but sometimes I find myself standing only on my *rear* leg. Ugh.

teach

Next time you are on the range try placing the ball way forwards of where you would normally hit it from - outside your left foot even.

You will struggle to make any form of reasonable contact without first getting well over on to your left side.

The objective here is just to gain, and ingrain, the feeling for pivoting right through impact and on to a full finish; where the ball goes is irrelevant.

You may well find that you cannot dwell on your right side if you think in terms of nudging the ball forwards with your right hip.

Go left young man.
 

Check your Hip Action.

For me, Hip Action at top is a Slide left (weight shift, axis tilt, Hula Hula) with a delayed hip turn (a cleared right hip) and a centered head. I find that when I turn my hips before I slide my hips left, I can never get fully left. You can turn the hips quite freely with your weight over the back leg or you can turn them with the weight over the front leg but you cant turn them with the weight centered, very much anyways. I think some aspect of the "Fire and Fall Back" move is overly active hip spinning requiring the weight to be centered over one leg, in this regard the back leg. As if the Hips choose the closest leg to the center of gravity and then instruct the brain to shift back to it so they can turn, turn, turn over it. Pivot to hands. Overly active Hip Turning.

I now actively clear or turn my right hip out of the way in startup or before but thats about it for active hip turning. The rest just sort of happens, I cant stop it really. Assuming I slide left with a delayed hip turn. As a drill you can hit range balls with your weight entirely left, feet only slightly spread apart, the right foot on its toes and drawn way back (clearing the right hip). You'll find contact to be quite powerful and note the absence of active hip turn through the shot. The totally cleared right hip allowing a nice inside out Delivery Path.

I also find that I develop a bad habit of not getting fully left when hitting off of mats. An injury prevention thing perhaps, to take away some of the collision of club and astro turf, floor etc. As if I unconsciously take away some of the Down and thereby lose some of three dimensional impact geometry. If you're coming off of a winters worth of mat work, make sure your divots are as they should be. If not, go left young man and go all the way Down and Out on the plane ride towards Low Point.

As a side note Im fascinated by how TGM can ascribe a cause and effect relationship to our unconscious compensations.

Hope this helps. Some of this is just my personal experience not TGM, so apply the usual caveats and sign the disclaimer before applying.

ob

where's your weight at set up? are you seting up with too much axis tilt?

Thank you for your replies. Mats definitely aren't helping matters and I will watch my set-up. I will work on it and on the suggestions.

teach

Head over Knees
 

teach,

Make sure you have not become ballcentric. A tell tale sign of this is a head that is uncentered and most likely over your right knee. This tends to move your low point back, and makes tilting the axis coming down an improbability...as Bucket suggests you have mega-tilt already, hence the fall and fire deal. I can feast on the geometry of the circle alone, but there is so much more!

+1

I'd hazard a guess you're coming over the top too, hitting the outside aft instead of the inside aft of the ball.

Check out VJ Trolio Click

And Hogan himself. Click

Just ran across this quote from one of Yoda's posts:

"Weight Shift is strictly a HIP MOTION. Substituting a Head Motion and/or a Knee Motion will make Swaying inevitable."

-- Homer Kelley (7-14)

Sorry to keep prattling on by myself here...:laughing9 but how about some drill suggestions for those of us who have trouble getting to the left side properly?

At what point in the swing should the majority of weight be on the left heel? How about for swingers vs. hitters?

What do you guys think of VJ's hip action/weight shift in the video above?

Hey Andy

I'd get VJ's book if you dont have it already.

When you get left depends on the shot at hand. When chipping you should start with the weight left for instance. As for the heal, typically the weight goes to the ball of the left foot first before it goes to the heal dynamically on full shots. If you look at Yoda's swing on this site he gets left really early when hitting a mid iron say. Before he gets to top even, while on the backswing, Hogan style.

The McDonald drills have really helped my brother deal with his weight shift issues. You can use the search function on this site to look them up.

I also really like the Hogan, Knudson right foot slide move where you drag your right foot (Knudson dragged it further than Hogan) as the weight gathers on your left side. Basically you cant have weight on the right foot if you are in the process of dragging it. Severe back foot hitters actually drag their left foot back at Finish.

Another thing to consider is a drill where you pre set your weight left at address with your right hip set back to allow an inside path of the hands and then take a three quarter, super light swing with a mid iron. Like you were trying to hit about 30 yards short of normal. Dont want to hurt yourself so take it easy. You can release the hip on the down swing as per usual. It will give you a feel for how things should be on the downswing. Below is a photo of Hogan in a lower body position you should try to emulate at address for this drill and in the downswing. I got so excited with the compressions and results when using this drill I tried to take it to the course and really wrenched my back so be careful. That right hip back in Startdown is fantastic. It really promotes the proper inside out Delivery Path of the Hands. If you tend to hit off the back foot you probably have an outside in path. The geometry of impact must be served as well as the pure physics of weight shift after all. The two work together. Trace the straight line base line dont cover it etc. You'll know your on the right path when your divots are pointing straight at the target, which is probably where the ball is going too by the way.

Startdown waggles are good too. From Top, bump left with the hips (right hip cleared or held back) to get into the Hogan like position. Let the hip bump to the left bring the right shoulder down etc. Hit the search function and do this as part of your practice swing. Jeff Hull has incorporated it into his routine really nicely if you have his video.

Knowledge is helpful too. The magazines are filled with rotation thoughts but you must know this first. The hips slide to shift the weight before they turn. This was a key concept for me anyways. The cleared right hip goes nicely with this thought.

I bet there are lots of good drills other guys know of too. Lets hear them all. Hope this helps.

Here is a link to a Hogan right foot drag video. Wish I knew how to post some latter day George Knudson swings that I have, he really dragged it, making getting left automatic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0H7PJ0ZGys

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=124138415 0

Thanks, OB!

It's something thats been improving steadily for me, but my old habit of tilting my spine right on the downswing still trips me up now and again. Couple that with (another old habit I'm trying to break of) sliding my hips right a touch to plant my right foot at start-up and you've got serious trouble. :crybaby:

:laughing9

Off-Balance. Move your right foot back 10" away from your plane line. Swing. If you didn't hit a fat shot or if most of your shots were clean, then its balance.

Balance isn't weight distribution. Its having your Body (pivot) aligned for the next action. Going to the top of the swing should put your body in alignment to swing down. Yours insn't.

Umm hmm, I'm writing that one down. :golf:

In the Alignment Golf DVD, VJ Trolio's 'highschool hips' drill highlights an important subtlety of weight shift - it should move down the line, not out toward the ball.

Did Mr. Kelly ever talk about weight shift alignments?

Weight Shift Alignments (From the Cutting Room Floor)
 

From the Third Edition:

A Sharp Backstoke Turn, a Downstroke Hip Slide only (before the Arm Motion begins) encourages "On Plane" Pivot alignments. So it's -- Turn, Slide, Swing.

[Bold emphasis in the original text.]

:)

Wow, no wonder Daryl is working so hard at finding a copy of the third edition. So much to learn...

Thanks Yoda,
Kevin

I need an excuse. How about, "I was at work and pressed for time, and somehow I ......" :(

I can't even come up with a good excuse. :laughing9

Leave it to Yoda to find the shortest distance in golf :salut:

the distance between problem and solution. Thats what Yoda does.

The other big piece about that hang back deal is the right shoulder stalls and the arms run off and your control of the head and face is GREATLY compromised. Say hello to the two way miss . . . . I live this unfortunately.

Thanks, Yoda!

Forgive me if I'm being a bit thick here :redface: , the weight shifts parallel to the target line, right? Put another way, if ones center of gravity were drawing a line during the Slide, that line would be parallel to the target line?

Clearing the Right Hip On the Downstroke
 

The Slide is parallel to the Plane Line (which normally is also the Target Line, but not always, e.g., Open and Closed Plane Lines). Now, here's the really important part:

The Slide is accomplished while the Right Hip remains Turned. So, it is a Slide (parallel to the Plane Line) with a delayed Turn.

Also, monitor your Foot and Knee Action during the Downstroke. These Components support the Hip Motion and help maintain Balance and a Stationary Head. In other words, no 'saggy-baggy' knees, aka "leg drive" (ugh!) and no exaggerated twisting of the Feet. All this contributes to an On Plane and Centered Arc, the Holy Grail of Golfing Consistency. Study 1-L-#1, #2, #5 and #6.

:)

Again, thanks, Yoda!

I always get slightly euphoric when another crucial subtlety of the golf swing is revealed to me - since coming onboard here that's been happening a lot. :happy3:

Is this feel or real?
 

Yoda

In regard to a swingers delayed hip turn in startdown, do the hips ever get actively spun? Or do they just react as the hands would dictate or as the power package overtakes the pivot? The person throwing a baseball turns his hips but not actively for instance, it just sort of happens. Hand to pivot throw. As opposed to the very popular golfers early hip spin in transition, mostly before the weight gets left.

I am currently having great success just sliding with a delayed turn and thats about it. Maybe a little left leg straightening to ward off my saggy left knee tendancy. No active hip spinning, delayed or otherwise anymore. They do turn towards the target but not by me actively anyways. Everything looks the same or better even, not a hip stall or anything, dont want to hurt myself. More balance, no spinning out on the left foot.

Straightening the knee is going to allow the hip to turn more . . . In both directions (backstroke and downstroke).

Hands Controlled Pivot
 

Aye O.B., that’s a great example. :)

When kids throw a ball, the boys at a young age taught their pivot to comply with their hands. Hand Control Pivot. They taught their pivots to support and power their harms and comply with the path of their hands. Girls, on the other hand, throw like girls because they haven’t trained their pivots to power or comply. They either use a non-pivot stroke (typical girl’s baseball overhand toss) or if they use a pivot, then the ball fly’s off in an unintended/unpredictable direction. Pivot Controlled Hands means that the path of the hands will be controlled and/or distrupted by the pivot.

I don’t know how it’s done in the “North Country” but in the Lower 50 (a Banff, Canadian term), men use an active pivot when throwing a baseball. The Pivot leads the throw. The harder you want to throw, then the harder you pivot. It’s so automatic, we don’t think about it (unless you’re a Cubs pitcher, then you stop thinking about it just before a big game). :laughing9



So, a great Zone 2 can only perform as well as Zone 1, but you need a great Zone 3 to train Zone 1. Is that the Chicken and the Egg? No.... Zone 2&3 are trained by using Basic Motion Drills. Zone 1 is introduced in Aquired Motion to begin training the Pivot. Total Motion drills = training at full Pressure on the pressure points in the 4,1,2,3. In basic motion, one must learn and use extensor action. Aquired motion is great for power package training. Total motion is great for acceleration training.

(the pivot keeps on pivoting and isn't overtaken until after both arms straight)

People have a habit of swinging harder or faster, using effort. But, you can’t push a car faster than you can run. Your goal is to use the Pivot in such a way that the #3 Pressure Point pressure stays the same all of the way through the ball and further. Distance is gained by putting more pressure on #4,1,2/3. More precise alignments when moving 80% to stay within yourself is the path to greater distance.

Nice one. As a youngster I used to have a saggy left knee (lots of leg drive) and try to spin the hips hard to keep them ahead of the hands to ward off a hook.

The legs and knees just anchor the swing now and have no action (although I personally try to throw a little left knee straightening in but not to fully straight. The hips have an action for some but do they ever actively spin through the shot? Is instant hip acceleration a slide in transition with a delayed hip turn?

If Im doing startdown waggles and hold the right hip back as I bump left and then go a little bit further in Downstroke with my only on my right shoulder the hips turn or are maybe turned.

Perhaps this is just a feel and not a real. Certainly better than spinning out.

See ya.

I'd say you want to slide your hips the amount that allows you to stay on the selected plane. That being said . . . not sure there's any research on this or whatever but imagine you got one of them surgical tubing deals stuck up in a door frame. You can pull that thing LOTS easier if you go forward with your hips and pull down with your arms versus spinning your hips and your shoulders.

Turn the Axis . . . Spin the Flywheel
 

See this morning's Post #8 here: http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...3672#post63672.

Study 2-K.

:salut:

Thanks Daryl

I love your Alberta references. Banff and Jasper are a relatively unknown heaven on earth kind of places. Hope you enjoyed them.

As for hands to pivot vs pivot to hands ..................Ill be forever trying to sort them out. For now I just clear my right hip and then let my right arm kinda "Indian chief how" my way to top.

Hey now, for sure the pivot leads, but we golfers tend to over do it a bit. Dont you think. If a Sox hitter is getting killed by a Cubs pitcher does he go back to the dugout and say "what a pivot turn on that guy" or "what an arm on that guy"? If its the latter does that mean the guy didnt turn his body or pivot?

Ob

Bold by Daryl

First: The Northern Rockies are overwhelming and majestic. The Canadians have done and continue to do an outstanding job maintaining the parks and the tourist infrastructure. Combined, they create a great experience to be repeated. :salut:

Back to Golf: Golfers in the 70's and 80's over exaggerated with their driving knees, legs and hips I think. The alignment of the pivot while in motion to guide the hands is crucial.

Releasing the Accumulators causes a rate of change of velocity (acceleration)of the clubhead, and occurs during the downstroke and release sequence. The rate of Acceleration (how much is the rate of change in velocity) is determined by the Pivot (Increase the Mass; how much pressure is on the pressure points). With Zero Pivot you can have acceleration but you can only increase its rate by just a little.


When you're at a Cubs game in chicago, it's common to hear one Fan say to another, "man, he has good velocity but that goofy Pitcher better adjust his rate of acceleration!", then the other Fan says "you're stupid; his rate of acceleration was ok, but his hand release was bad!". Then a fight begins. :laughing9


Daryleze:

Hands Controlled Pivot = Pivot trained by the hands so that the pivot will will comply with Hand Motion and Action. Alignments and Force.

Pivot Controlled Hands = Hands and Arms are adjusted to compensate for Pivot Motion and Action. Alignments and Force.

All Non-Pivot Strokes are Hands Controlled Pivot. If you can't perform a Basic Stroke, "forgetaboutit".