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-   -   How Do I Release the Club? And where? (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6380)

Yoda 01-27-2009 11:58 PM
How Do I Release the Club? And where?
 
Where do I release the Club?

And does it vary from Club to Club, i.e., from Driver to Putter?

How about with the same Club, e.g., the Wedge?

strav 03-06-2009 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 60790)
Where do I release the Club?
How do you define Release?

O.B.Left 03-06-2009 06:27 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Tommy Bolt had a nice release. Release being the initiation or application of energy/stored power. Here is a photo.

While he is releasing this driver (a little early on this hole) I got a feeling he could release any club. Probably did. The shorter ones being shorter and therefore easier to release would normally be released later (in the swing and the hole) than the longer ones. COAM? The person with a 10' ladder on his shoulder turns slower than the person with a 6' ladder. Faster clubhead surface speed but slower RPMs the longer the club gets.

Although for any particular club he could vary the release point to alter its trajectory. He was that good. Tommy was subject to the laws not the other way around.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123637792 9

efnef 03-07-2009 02:28 AM
In the words of Craig Stadler, "Why do I have a new putter? Because my old one don't float so good."

strav 03-07-2009 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 61757)

Although for any particular club he could vary the release point to alter its trajectory. He was that good. Tommy was subject to the laws not the other way around.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123637792 9
Very good OB. I can see what you are getting at there. He seems to be controlling trajectory by altering his plane as well. Not that unusual really. You can see that he is still concerned about his form and maintaining his wedges beautifully. Lot to be learnt here by those of us who have been known to become emotionally involved in the game.

strav 03-08-2009 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 60790)
Where do I release the Club?
A GSED once said "You have got to Release. You have to let this thing go almost immediately – certainly before you get past your Right Hip otherwise you wont have a chance to allow the Lever to get in there. If you pull your Hands past beyond your Right Hip – when the hell is this going to have a chance to Release?"

Was he correct?

O.B.Left 03-08-2009 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strav (Post 61804)
A GSED once said "You have got to Release. You have to let this thing go almost immediately – certainly before you get past your Right Hip otherwise you wont have a chance to allow the Lever to get in there. If you pull your Hands past beyond your Right Hip – when the hell is this going to have a chance to Release?"

Was he correct?


Per 10-24-0 Power Package Release. "There are Three Release Points (Sweep, Random and Snap) and two Release Types (Automatic and Non automatic) producing six combinations."

I think the master golfer knows and can employ them all given the shot and the lever length (club) at hand. He would appear to be referring to a Non automatic Release at a pre selected point but Im not sure what he means by "immediately". Immediately from Top would suggest 10-24-A Full Sweep Release. But his mention of the right hip suggests a later Release Point so Im guessing 10-24-B Non automatic Random Sweep Release. But maybe he means 10-24-D Non automatic Snap Release. I dunno.

Homers terminology is frustrating but very precise. When we dont use his terms we lose precise meaning. Suffice it to say that one has options and the ball demands precision.

ob

Bagger Lance 03-08-2009 02:31 PM
More questions
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strav (Post 61748)
How do you define Release?
I like this question so I'll add a few more.

Release of the power package starts with which power accumulator in a full swing?

If Putting which power accumulator is released first?

What do we call the act of the club switching ends in the downstroke?

Back to Yoda's question of, "where" do I release the club? Does releasing the power package differ from releasing the club?

Bagger Lance 03-08-2009 08:20 PM
Be Kind to your Elbow
 
Bear with me on this one...I throw in text references so my fellow students can keep me honest.

Release occurs during downstroke section (8-7) of the swing, specifically at Section 9 (8-9) after the Startdown and Downstroke sections have begun. Its location is dependent on the selected release "Trigger" (10-20) and it is known as the period of clubhead acceleration.

In terms of accumulator release for the full swing, the "Swinger" will use accumulators 4,2 and 3 and the loaded accumulators will be released in that order. They can be omitted, sequenced or overlapped (6-M-1) depending on preferences and the club in hand. The Hitter will typically use 1,2 and 3 and sometimes 4,1,2 and 3 sequence in the full swing.

Release for each accumulator begins when their loaded condition starts to seek its in-line condition or unload. For accumulator #4 it is when the left arm begins to move away from the chest, for #1 its when the right arm begins to straighten. These two actions are nearly inseparable but when #4 is in use, #1 must follow except when #4 is used exclusively with a no release procedure such as a 10-3-H Paw Minor stroke. The definition of the release of the power package is when the first accumulator in use begins to seek its in-line condition.

The more conventional definition for release is the 4-D-0 Release Motions which specifically refer to the motion of the wrists - Accumulators 2 and 3; Wristcock and Roll. The uncocking of the flat left wrist is used in conventional golf instruction to describe "The Release", but in Golfing Machine parlance this is not the correct definition, it is only part of the story.

The beginning or "where" of release occurs based on a defined release "Trigger" (7-20). The Triggers (10-20), also known as "Throws" are The Hand Throw, Right Arm Throw, Shoulder Turn Throw, Delivery Path Throw, and Wrist Throw. They can be used stand-alone or in combination based on the list in 11-20 and they are closely tied to Release Types. The location of release trigger is where the Right Elbow first begins to straighten (6-B-2-0, 7-20 first paragraph, and 6-M-0).

The Triggers or Throws are tightly integrated with their associated Release Type (10-24). That is Sweep, Random Sweep, and Snap of which there are automatic and non-automatic versions.

In summary and in my best lay instruction - release location is defined where the right elbow begins to straighten so make sure you position it where you want it. Its why 7-20 is titled "Plan Ahead".

Got my flame suit on so fire away...

Bagger Lance 03-08-2009 10:47 PM
Batter Up
 
My explanation above is pretty textbook and since this is a Fundamentals thread, the right response is "This is how I do it".

First - Decide what release trigger suits you or you want to use.
Second - Practice the Trigger by paying attention to your right elbow location and its activity.
Third - Do start down waggles as part of your routine and make sure you know where your right elbow is in relation to its release point. That is - Start Down on a delivery line path that is on plane, then release the right elbow and take the stroke through its impact alignments, follow through, and even finish stations.

Repeat.

To answer Yoda's question above - I use the same trigger and its associated right elbow location for every shot except putts. Don't ask me why.

O.B.Left 03-08-2009 10:59 PM
Nice one Bagger. Take the flame suit off and take a bow.

Very informative post, Ive copied it to my file for future reference.

OB



PS Is the Automatic Snap Release what we all should seek, for power anyways. Hitter or swinger? Should Tom Watson have slowed his hand speed down to achieve a smaller pulley wheel crazy as that may sound?

strav 03-09-2009 03:59 AM
Many thanks Bagger, this is a very interesting topic and you have included a wealth of info in your posts which will take me a while to dissect and digest.
Thanks again.

Delaware Golf 03-09-2009 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagger Lance (Post 61811)

Bear with me on this one...I throw in text references so my fellow students can keep me honest.

Release occurs during downstroke section (8-7) of the swing, specifically at Section 9 (8-9) after the Startdown and Downstroke sections have begun. Its location is dependent on the selected release "Trigger" (10-20) and it is known as the period of clubhead acceleration.

In terms of accumulator release for the full swing, the "Swinger" will use accumulators 4,2 and 3 and the loaded accumulators will be released in that order. They can be omitted, sequenced or overlapped (6-M-1) depending on preferences and the club in hand. The Hitter will typically use 1,2 and 3 and sometimes 4,1,2 and 3 sequence in the full swing.

Release for each accumulator begins when their loaded condition starts to seek its in-line condition or unload. For accumulator #4 it is when the left arm begins to move away from the chest, for #1 its when the right arm begins to straighten. These two actions are nearly inseparable but when #4 is in use, #1 must follow except when #4 is used exclusively with a no release procedure such as a 10-3-H Paw Minor stroke. The definition of the release of the power package is when the first accumulator in use begins to seek its in-line condition.

The more conventional definition for release is the 4-D-0 Release Motions which specifically refer to the motion of the wrists - Accumulators 2 and 3; Wristcock and Roll. The uncocking of the flat left wrist is used in conventional golf instruction to describe "The Release", but in Golfing Machine parlance this is not the correct definition, it is only part of the story.

The beginning or "where" of release occurs based on a defined release "Trigger" (7-20). The Triggers (10-20), also known as "Throws" are The Hand Throw, Right Arm Throw, Shoulder Turn Throw, Delivery Path Throw, and Wrist Throw. They can be used stand-alone or in combination based on the list in 11-20 and they are closely tied to Release Types. The location of release trigger is where the Right Elbow first begins to straighten (6-B-2-0, 7-20 first paragraph, and 6-M-0).

The Triggers or Throws are tightly integrated with their associated Release Type (10-24). That is Sweep, Random Sweep, and Snap of which there are automatic and non-automatic versions.

In summary and in my best lay instruction - release location is defined where the right elbow begins to straighten so make sure you position it where you want it. Its why 7-20 is titled "Plan Ahead".

Got my flame suit on so fire away...
Please demonstrate the difference between a Shoulder Turn Throw and a Wrist Throw Trigger???

Bagger Lance 03-09-2009 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf (Post 61819)
Please demonstrate the difference between a Shoulder Turn Throw and a Wrist Throw Trigger???
Not interested. I know where you will take the discussion and this isn't the thread for it.

O.B.Left 03-09-2009 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 61814)
Is the Automatic Snap Release what we all should seek, for power anyways. Hitter or swinger? Should Tom Watson have slowed his hand speed down to achieve a smaller pulley wheel crazy as that may sound?

Let me rephrase this:

I currently do more hitting than swinging, with a driver I tend towards a Sweep Release. Should I necessarily seek the later release, smaller pulley wheel? Homer recommends the late release for power, I believe. I'm also assuming Automatic is generally preferable to Non automatic. The Snap Release is so dang beautiful but it is for everybody?

Thanks
ob

Bagger Lance 03-09-2009 12:22 PM
Back to the Future
 
This thread might be of interest to you O.B.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...light=triggers

I think the only thing I've added to the discussion of release triggers on this site is the focus on right elbow location and motion.

Delaware Golf 03-09-2009 09:32 PM
Enlightenment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagger Lance (Post 61820)
Not interested. I know where you will take the discussion and this isn't the thread for it.
Well...please start a thread where you can answer the question. I'm sure you would enlighten a few LBG members.

DG

Bagger Lance 03-09-2009 09:41 PM
Punching "Bag"ger
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf (Post 61828)
Well...please start a thread where you can answer the question. I'm sure you would enlighten a few LBG members.

DG

Let me think about it for a minute...

NOPE

But go ahead and knock yourself out.:)

mb6606 03-09-2009 10:55 PM
Didn't Mr. Kelley say there is no release of the lag pressure or something to that effect? When I swing correctly I can feel the bent right wrist all the way into finish. What does Yoda feel?

12 piece bucket 03-09-2009 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb6606 (Post 61830)
Didn't Mr. Kelley say there is no release of the lag pressure or something to that effect? When I swing correctly I can feel the bent right wrist all the way into finish. What does Yoda feel?
That is correct . . . . accumulators release but lag pressure essentially disapates.

12 piece bucket 03-09-2009 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 61821)
Let me rephrase this:

I currently do more hitting than swinging, with a driver I tend towards a Sweep Release. Should I necessarily seek the later release, smaller pulley wheel? Homer recommends the late release for power, I believe. I'm also assuming Automatic is generally preferable to Non automatic. The Snap Release is so dang beautiful but it is for everybody?

Thanks
ob
Not exactly answering your question . . . but I think Homer preferred Hitting because he COULD exact effort and lots of it . . . .you may not be actually "non-automatic" but you definitely will be actively releasing #1 . . . .which is a whole different feel than spinning the fly wheel. monebak.

david sandridge 03-10-2009 06:26 AM
spinning the flywheel
 
Please elaborate on "spinning the flywheel

Thanks

O.B.Left 03-10-2009 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 61832)
Not exactly answering your question . . . but I think Homer preferred Hitting because he COULD exact effort and lots of it . . . .you may not be actually "non-automatic" but you definitely will be actively releasing #1 . . . .which is a whole different feel than spinning the fly wheel. monebak.


Thanks Bucket.

Good notes. I do feel the #1 actively straightening. And loving it. But I also notice my hand speed creeping up a little too. Maybe its just all the range time of late. As you mentioned Mr Kelley did say that hitting can with stand some extra effort. Luke also said once that we should shorten and slow our swings to the point just before we start to lose distance. I like this notion. Somewhere in all of this is the relationship between hand speed , release point and the Endless Belt's small pulley wheel.

Does the extra effort beget increased hand speed which begets a bigger pulley wheel necessarily? Making the hand speed and the effort all for not? Yoda when hitting appears to have a late hit and a punch elbow. Perhaps a grip change is required for this?


ob


ps you TGM guys use the craziest terminology

Yoda 03-10-2009 08:35 PM
Sustaining Lag Pressure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 61831)

. . . . accumulators release but lag pressure essentially dissipates.
Exactly right, Bucket. And I love the way you said it. Good stuff!

Lag Pressure.

Somewhat like that Texas cowboy's tombstone in a long-forgotten 'boot hill':
First I wasn't.

Then I was.

Now I ain't again.
The Lag Pressure is Loaded in Start Down and Delivered into Impact. Then, as the Right Elbow fully straightens in Follow-through and Thrust gives way to Momentum, the Lag Pressure simply ceases to exist.

Taking a line from General Douglas MacArthur:
"Old soldiers never die. They just . . . fade away."

:salut:


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