Wrist action grip choices
 

I would like to know the advantages/disadvantages of wrist action choices.

I normally use a 10-2-B wrist action grip - Strong single action. As a swinger I therefore have to pronate my left forearm during the takeaway swivel action, and then supinate during the release swivel action.

It would seem that the need would be less with a 10-2-D - Strong Double action grip, where the left wrist cock is in the plane of the right wrist bend. Is that true? Do you use this grip and find it advantageous? What are the disadvantages of this grip choice?

Does anyone think that another grip choice is better? Why?

Jeff.

You don't have to do all that swiveling with 10-2-B . . . Nicklaus didn't . . . PLUS a lot of it has to do with how you have the club set on the ground at hopefully fix when you put your hand on it . . . if you have the shaft leaning way forward with a 3 iron when you put your grip on it . . . . I don't care if you are 10-2-ABCDEGFHIJKLMNOP Grip . . . you ain't gonna hit the ball in the air. And if you don't get shaft leaning as much as you programed in . . . the face is going to pull the ball left.

Jeff,
A little more information and thoughts and a fewer questions - please. Specific questions are OK when you really have a significant dilemma but when it's a great smorgasboard splattered across the scenery just to see if you learn something new- well you'll drive people away. Just a thought for you to consider- maybe bad or good advice.

That said, I did have a few questions regarding when I awake in the morning- Do you think I should put on my left shoe first? Or the right shoe first? Socks before shirt? Shirt before socks? What's the advantages and dis-advantages between shirt first or socks first? Is one faster than the other? Would this order change if I live in California versus Maine? How do different materials slow or speed up the process- cotton versus polyester? Also, where is the best place to buy clothes and what credit card do you use that charges the lowest rate, smallest annual fee, and does it provide free airfare or coffee? Or should I be using cash in this economy and how do I tell if it is real money or printing off of Bucket's press in his basement..oops! :shock: Please don't make fun of this post - "any question is a good question" and I am passionate about this subject matter and want to learn as much as I can - I'm hoping that by covering all these issues and questions - it may set the stage for someone to provide the most information for me to learn and grow on this subject matter - i.e. it might be the quickest way for me to learn as opposed to figuring this stuff out myself.

Appreciate any and all comments- as I am very interested in learning as much as I can regarding the best procedure and most efficient dressing methods- trust me my intentions are pure- strictly a truth seeker.

999
 

Post 999- fluff/filler post

You've grown enough as it is, step away from the corn bread, hands where I can see em.

Just like 998 . . .

How many posts are required before I get Skymiles?

And the last 400.....
1000 seems like a nice number to stop on- enjoy boys! I'll be holed up working in the lab on some top secret experimental forumulas- look for me in 10 years.:hello:

The would be banisher has left the building....

Anybody want in on the over/under on 2 days?

The Guy that jump started this show.
 

Mike, thanks for a great run. We had a wonderful time and will miss your unique humor, as well as your insightful and creative posts. Best of Luck on the research :salut: . I look forward to getting together with you in the summer on your way to Maine.

Thanks and Please Keep in Touch.
Your Friend,
Drew

Ode To Mike O
 

He'll be back.

He's got 'the sickness'.

Until that time, though . . .

"Thanks for the memory!"

:occasion:

1K Posts Award
 

For post #1000 MikeO got a special treat. Rather than a gold watch we gave him an LBG Chinese Finger Cuff.
Should keep him occupied and harmless for the next 10 years.

you ok bucket? I'm worried about yyou.

Ob

I'll be fine . . . . I rented a couple of goats and tied 'em to a tree in the front yard . . . won't even need to turn the alarm system on.

Say It Ain't O
 

I don't think so. I talked to him on the phone tonight. He and his gold watch are moving in a different direction :salut: .

You may be right. He has a lot of research work in front of him on his quest to crack the code of "rock, paper, scissors".

I know you're reading this Mike.

Mike!!!!!!

I got that once too . . . . "I'm done with the forums." Then he banged out 700 more posts. As far as the different direction . . . . there's a lot of reading between the lines that could go on there. He's gonna be close to you . . . too close.

I love comin home to a post like this. You guys kill me.

Does this mean we all get to pick on Bucket exclusively?:)

I do anyway

O give me a home, where Bucket can roam.
 

How else did you you expect "us" to win this fight. It was all part of my master plan :eyes: . Sorry I had to keep it from you until now.

As far as picking on Bucket, you will have to do it over "O's" dead body :naughty: . Now, BJ and Cp, you were saying...&C

Evil genius . . . .

Well since O's not here anymore....it's time to go after Colonel Slanders!

Don't step in a hornet's nest.

Jeff - a very good question, although the thread took an alternate route (perhaps we can get back on topic)

I would suggest that what you think is 10-2-B is perhaps more towards 10-2-A, and that this can require the type of turn/roll you mention.

Per 10-2-B the left thumb and #3 PP are on the 'aft' side of the shaft, for "on plane" impact support. That is a more turned position that the standard training grip you see on many aids would put you in.

See the photo of Homer that Mike O has in in signature, or in the gallery.

To find this position for your left hand, it really is exactly how your left hand hangs naturally at your side. For some that is more turned than for others, but in my case it is at about 45 degrees, not at vertical, or fully turned, as in 10-2-D.

From that position, hanging naturally at your side, lift the left arm straight up to shoulder high. Seeing the left shoulder hinge pin just like a door, and not turning or rolling your hand at all, move your arm back and forth on the horizontal plane.

That is your horizontal hinge motion, on the horizontal plane.

On the angled plane of a swing, that will still have a feel of turn and roll, but you will find it much easier to keep your Rhythm, and square up at impact.

As to the advantages or disadvantages to 10-2-D, it is a very helpful way to learn clubhead control, and most beginners would benefit from at least trying it to learn to lean the shaft forward at impact and hit downplane. It does have somewhat of a power loss IMO over 10-2-B, because you are removing the advantages of accumulator #3 (turn and roll). It is also best used for a fade.

EdZ

Thanks for commenting.

Very interesting post.

I used to have a 10-2-B grip that was more like 10-2-A, but I have recently adopted your suggestion of ensuring that the left thumb is on the aft side of the club.

I do agree that a 10-2-B grip allows the left hand to roll-over naturally into a horizontal hinging action post-impact. I presume that this natural roll-over action is more difficult with a 10-2-D grip, which would predispose to angled/vertical hinging and a fade.

I never though about the other potential advantage of a 10-2-B grip - that the natural roll over action allows for a better use of PA#3 transfer power. That's a good point.

Considering all these advantages to a 10-2-B grip, wouldn't it be the "best" grip choice for most golfers? Are there any major disadvantages?

What about hitters - is there a "best" grip choice for hitters?

Jeff

The use of accumulator #3 is really based on the clubs design, with a 10-2-A grip, pitch elbow, CF, and a true snap release, there is a lot more power (speed at least, and mass if lag pressure is maintained) - ala Hogan.

That said, 10-2-A, in all but ideal alignments and rhythm, requires you to 'do' something to square up, which most folks don't (hence why they slice given the 'training' grip).

10-2-B still requires that hinge action, the closing door, to ensure a square face, less power than A, but more than D. the happy medium. Its limitation is that most people steer, so the door still never closes.

10-2-D takes care of squaring up, but at a power loss, and potential direction loss for swingers. The best choice for learning to hit, because you can simply thrust the right arm paddle wheel at the aiming point with a bent right wrist. Since hitters don't use #3.

So with A - better to swing
with B - you can do either
and with D - hitting is a safer bet for control

Ed,

Excellent post!

Thank you for a great learning experience.

Jeff.

10-2-D, or not to 10-2-D
 

World class summary, Edz! Does anybody have any idea how Duval and Couples, Daly (I meekly submit they use more of a 10-2-D) overcome the power reduction that 10-2-D represents for most, due to no transfer power. I use a 10-2-B, but all the long hitters I know have a turned left hand! :sad2:
Again, fantastic summary!

Okie

I am curious to see how your question gets answered.

I would add another related question. If a swinger powers the golf swing with a 4:2:3 release pattern, what % of the total power is due to PA#3 release? In other words, does PA#3 produce power independently or does is it simply transfer power?

Another related question is how can PA#3 produce power independently if the release of PA#3 is essentially passive - due to external rotation of the left humerus that happens naturally/passively during the release of PA#4 and a small amount of left forearm supination, which is merely a passive reversal of the left forearm pronation that occurred during the start-up swivel action?

Jeff.

10-2-B More Turned
 

Is the left wrist in 10-2-B more turned than 10-2-A or just the left thumb?
Ref: 10-2-A @ V/V/T and 10-2-B @ V/V/A.

Thanks

DRW

Coming to Grips with Long Hitters
 

Remember, Grip Types, per 7-2, are taken at Impact Fix per 2-J-1. In the case of the player that does not use Fix 7-8 or adopt it into their Address Routine 3-F-5 than Impact itself can give the best indication for the Grip Type taken. In the case of Couples and many other longer hitters, who starts their motions from Adjusted Address 8-3, their grips are dramatically different from their grips during his Impact 8-10 alignments. Mr. Kelley sated per 7-8, In-put-Out-put Power Ratio also is utterly dependent on Hand Location at Impact.

Drewitgolf

You wrote-: "Mr. Kelley sated per 7-8, In-put-Out-put Power Ratio also is utterly dependent on Hand Location at Impact."

I understand that to mean that the there must be forward shaft lean at impact with a flat left wrist and bent right wrist. I don't think that it refers to wrist positional variations at impact.

Jeff.

My response was to clarification in determining Grip Type for Long Hitter (10-2-B vs. 10-2-D). "In-put-Out-put Power Ratio also is utterly dependent on Hand Location at Impact" was to stress the importance of how the longer Hitters achieve their length and the alignments of Grip Type. I did not mention wrist positional variations at Impact directly, but all of the reference numbers I mentioned can be tied directly with 4-0.

drewitgolf

Do you believe that there is a causal relationship between wrist grip choice (10-2-B versus 10-2-D) and long hitting? If yes, could you please explain the mechanism?

Jeff.

Grip it and sip it
 

No, not in of themselves. the Hands are merely adjustable clamps that allow the Wristcock, but no Wristbend, but they can influence Zone #2 Arm (Power, Force) components. For instance, a 10-2-B will give you the best opportunity to maintain the structure of your Flying Wedges 6-B-3-0-1, but if your procedure is one that accelerates the Clubhead Radially and throws the Clubface at the ball, then by all means employ a 10-2-D grip (reference 2-P).

Lotsa people probably end up with 10-2-D grips because they started out slicing the ball . . . . subconsciously the probably figured out they needed to have the face looking left of the target so they could play their slice . . . . as a result they end up 10-2-D . . . . many call 10-2-D a hookers grip but most of 'em fade it.

The Buck stops here.
 

Speaking from experience Lee Buck?

guilty!!!!!!!