HK's right arm swing recommendation
 

Here is a video showing HK watching a golfer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iclf7SpLg_Y&NR=1

In this video he recommends that the golfer become a right arm swinger. Why does he recommend that a golfer become a right arm swinger? Where in his TGM book does he describe right arm swinging?

Jeff.

Start at 7-19 last paragraph

Mike

Thanks for the comment. His right arm swing commentary in 7-19 is limited to one paragraph. What do you think that he saw in that golfer's swing that would make him recommend that the golfer should become a right arm swinger? Do you have criteria for when a particular golfer should become a right arm swinger per 10-3-k with loosened wrists?

Jeff.

Right Arm Swinger
 

Jeff,
Before I briefly answer your question, let me say I really don't have a lot of desire to hash through golfing machine information in detail. Therefore, while you may have many, many additional questions- if so- someone else can jump in and answer them. 1) I certainly wouldn't want to ignore future questions without some explanation and 2) right arm swingers are few and far between and to me appear to be compensated procedures- so it's a very small world and although good to know the essential characteristics - not one to spend a lot of time on, in my opinion.

If you are a swinger you pull the club.
A right arm swinger would be primarily pulling with the right arm or musculature that supports the right arm acceleration.
A left arm swinger would be primarily pulling with the left arm or musculature that supports the left arm acceleration.
(Not that there wouldn't be a full body feel and many things pulling- but that would be the general distinction between the two. It certainly wouldn't mean that you would only feel the left arm swing ala Leslie King or only feel the right arm swinging.)
Now, If you are pulling with the right arm- then inherit in that action is that the "center" of the swing moves to the right elbow according to Homer Kelley (see 10-3-K 6th edition). Imagine the shaft primarily rotating around or oriented to the right elbow due to the physics involved. If pulling with the left - the "center" of rotaton is the left shoulder. Essentially imagine that the shaft rotates around the left hand and the left shoulder.

So for the golfer on the video- A) it's obvious to me that he is pulling i.e. swinging versus hitting and B) notice the "hang back" or the center of rotation around the right elbow. When I say "hang back" - I really mean that the right arm swing creates certain pivot and body motions that appear different than a "normal" left arm swinger- which kind of highlights the effects of the method through the resulting body motion. Less posting up on the left side etc.

It's not that he should become one so much, but more that he is a right arm swinger and he should "maybe" understand it so that he can be aware of his procedure so that he can be consistent with it and understand the pattern- what works with it and what works against it.

Great answer. Thanks Mike.

This really shows that HK appreciated all golfing patterns (as long as aligned OK) irrespective of their individual components. G.O.L.F. :salut:

Mike - thanks again for commenting.

I can see what you are referring to - the "hanging back" appearance that is due to having the clubshaft swing center relating to the right elbow. However, if one saw a golfer with that pattern, why not simply teach him the standard pivot-drive swing (ala Hogan)?

Secondly, you refer to a left arm swing as being a swing where the i) clubshaft swing center is at the left shoulder and ii) the left sided torso musculature pulls the left arm away from pressure point #4. However, in the pivot-driven swing the left arm is catapulted away from the chest wall (pressure point #4) when the pivot subsides - ala Hogan. Do you categorize that type of swing as also being a left arm swing style?

Jeff.

i) Let's just say for swingers that you have the right arm swing possibility or you have "the golf swing" i.e. left arm swinger. The only difference being the source of the acceleration and the resulting changing of centers. Now, it would be better to say or easier to see that the centers are different in the two. The right elbow or left shoulder centers are generalizations, not meant to be taken literally or measured directly i.e. those centers are moving.

ii) You're making a dinstinction or a division that I never made or at least running with and going onto a whole new topic of discussion. I said left side musculature (primarily) pulls the clubshaft. So I did not say "the left sided torso musculature pulls the left arm away from pressure point #4 "


"Do you categorize that type of swing as also being a left arm swing style?"
Sure- Anything but the right arm swing would have a "center at the left shoulder". Remember that we are really just talking about the swing center in this discussion. When you say ""Left arm swing style"" - you are really (for the reader) opening up a can of worms in regards to - Are we talking about or defining "What the movement feels like?" or "What muscles are actually being used?" or "What it looks like in pictures?" or "What the player is trying to do?". Without limiting the discussion or clearly defining the concept at hand - you quickly get off into the land of confusion (for the reader).

2-M-4
While Homer Kelley may have used something similar to "clarify a concept" - to use the above thought as a procedureal que in the golf swing most likely would be inaccurate and result in "throwaway".

Mike

Thank you for your clarifying comments. They make a lot of sense.

Jeff.

That "blasted" expression
 

Jeff,

#4 Accumulator is Radius Power and you will get Radius Power even with a gentle turn. The "blasting of the Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact", per 2-M-4, often gives the idea of a vicious action :( .

DG

I agree that even a gentle pivot action can release PA#4 in a pivot driven swing. Do you believe that the left arm is launched by the deceleration of the upper body's pivot-rotation turn that occurs naturally in a body swinger or do you think that PA#4 starts to release even before the upper torso's rotational movement decelerates?

Jeff.

Bucket,
Make sure that when Bulldog graduates to the "500" club, that you send out the "500" gift. The last time I had to hand deliver the straight jacket to the prior recipient. Don't worry Bulldog we don't start the paperwork and physical examinations for admittance into the facility until you reach the "1000" club.:eyes:

:shock: :shock: DG is Drewitgolf!? Oh my god! :confused1 :confused1 :)

What highway goes to where Bulldawg is? Ain't he in Europe or something . . . you got one of Europe's albums right? The Final Countdown? You think you could give 'em a call . . . probably could benefit from some groupieez with feathered mullets.

I'm going to steal some gas from "just drew it" . . . . he just got a new mower . . . with spinners. Get me the directions . . . I'll pick up a bag of poke rinds and a JC Penny Catalog circa 85 and hit the road.

The Confusion is starting to happen
 

Yo guys....for confusion sake, I much rather you refer to drewitgolf as DIG instead of DG....

Thanks DG "Delaware Golf"

The names have not been changed to protect the innocent
 

DIG? You want a DIG?
Yo guys....for confusion sake, I much rather you refer to Delaware Golf as Dela.

I don't need a name change, thank you very little.
How about Just Drewit :)

YL, a.k.a.
 

And instead of YL, I'd rather be referred to as:

TedtheguythatlearnedtheGolfingMachinefromLynnandte achesatMariettaGolfCenterinMariettaGeorgiaanddoesg olfschoolswithLynnatCuscowillaandotherplacesaround thecountryandisaHitterthatusesImpactAddress...for short.

A rose by any other name...
 

Yo, I think that there is a typo in there. What do they call you for long?

finger can't take it
 

My typing finger can't take it to do the long one. It would take two or three days. That's why I use the short a.k.a.

We'll head up hwy 95 - just pick me up and we'll need to hit drewit first- whos hes thinks he is - telling us what we can call him! We'll show'm - he's going to wish he didn't buy that new mower, I can hear him scream'n now. Then we need to swing by Delaware- he's saying that I'm confused! That's the last straw! We'll see who is confused after we get through with him!:confused1 Let's hit the road!! Those are the priority targets- we'll swing back south and perform a mercy killing on Fort- I just can't take it anymore - poor guy has lost his marbles.

Special Delivery
 

The Thrust of the Right Shoulder Turn is complete when it has reached its maximum speed, not the slowing down of the Pivot. After that the Pivot will continue to lead (Pivot Lag has no Release), but directions have been given to the Power Package.

OOOOOO Blah de, OOOOOO Blah da...
 

First of all, no touches my "New Cadillac" and I have decided to change my name to "Michael OO" so you won't be confused, and move further north to Maine. Riding the new John Deere, I should be there by mid-February :golfcart: .

For the newer forum members- with careful inspection and years of study there is a wealth of information on this forum. Take note of the above- what can you learn from this post? Well, we now know the weather in Attleboro Mass. - has produced frozen ground or the ground is covered with snow!!! Secondly, you will see "DIG's" posting rate go way up (I know - not good news for forum members!) during the next 4 - 6 months. Finally, you know that this poster has a deathwish! Bucket :iamwithst where are you my boy!? Let's Roll!:hang: :3gears:

BJ and the Bear
 

You'll never make it past Augusta, GA. Right BJ? BJ? Where are you BJ?

Ok Ok.........Dela??? Ok, refer to Drewit as Sammy D. (DIG).....part of the rat pack!!! Four :golf:

DG tm. (tm is for Trade Mark protection)

Mike,

That's just one guy swinging with his right arm (how can you base your conclusions on the swinging action of one golfer)...Tomasello doesn't look like that when he swings with his right arm, and I don't either. Mark Evershed doesn't...Erie Els doesn't....Retief Goosen doesn't.....David Love III doesn't.

DG

ain't lost nutin'
 

MikeyO - I ain't lost nur my marbles. Gona take mur dan u ta make me a gurl.

12 pack - ows yur mom n em?

Resurrecting Tommy (Again)
 

DG,

Aside from the fact that Mike O never referenced the late Tommy (Tomasello) in his post, I thought we had concluded a couple of years ago that Tommy was not a Right Arm Swinger. Nor was he a Hitter. Instead -- however explained -- he was a (Left Arm) Swinger integrating a sound Pivot with the Magic of the Right Forearm / Elbow Action.

:golf:

Too late lonely boy! Bucket and I, already took care of BJ! Notice the lack of posts from him! Any other "friends" you wanted to call out for help? - I mean call out a deathwish for? You should have seen BJ's face when I opened the door and then Bucket brought in the goat and the hampster! Priceless!

Bucket,
I thought I told you to cut all his fingers off and his toes!!! Do you want me to believe that he's typing with his nose!? He's not typing with his ... oh my:shock: OK, you're going to need to go back and finish the job- we can't have this it doesn't reflect well on LBG!

DG (Trademark use approved via PM - well maybe not),
I was just running with Homer's observation and I concluded that based on my observation that the player has transferred the center to the right elbow - hence that's how I would define a right arm swinger. In that strict definition, I would say that none of the players you listed are right arm swingers.

With that said, certainly my post could very easily be interpreted to read that a left arm swinger wouldn't or couldn't have some or a lot of right hand, arm, etc. involvement in the pulling process- which they certainly could. Therefore, if your point is that the players you mentioned may have felt or expoused pulling the club with their right arm- to any degree- I'm sure that's very possible but I would say that none of those players have transferred their center to the right elbow- therefore I wouldn't categorize them as a right arm swinger in the Golfing Machine world. Assuming that's your "issue" then I think it's a good point to make.

If after reading this you are upset with my use of your Trademark- you can contact my personal attorney - just realize that he is not board certified at this time- you can PM him from this forum- he goes by 12 Piece Bucket.

Australia/Chapter Series Video
 

Little Green Man,

Tommy did it all. Right arm swinging per 10-20-B, Right Shoulder Swinging per 10-20-C, Right and Left Arm Swinging per 10-20-D (the swinging procedure you're refering to above) and Left Wrist Swinging per 10-20-E.

On the driving range of the Deer Track resort, Tommy taught me right arm swinging (I have that instruction on audio tape), which I believe would have led to Right Arm and Left Arm swinging if I would have spent more time with Mr. Tomasello (I believe Tommy wanted me to understand and execute the magic of the right forearm before moving on and to include the left forearm for a full power stroke per Chapter 5 of the video series and per 12-5-3 and 10-3-D of the Seventh Editon of TGM...makes sense). I believe that's why Tommy handed me the Australia Video tape (which is now the Chapter series on this site) as I left his studio on Friday 10/22/93. In the end, I believe personally, Tommy favored the Right Forearm Left Forearm procedure per 10-20-D in his own playing as seen on the Australia/Chapter video series. The Right Forearm and Left Forearm swing includes the same Magic of the Right Forearm action as utilized in the 10-20-B Right Arm procedure (a la the right arm swing)....so you could say it's a derivative of right arm swinging. It's all swinging (Longitudinal Acceleration, which means Lengthwise Acceleration).

On the driving range, I have experimented with all of the procedures and I favor the Right Forearm Left Forearm procedure Tommy used per 10-20-D for Swinging.

DG

Out of Bounds
 

Well . . .

There you go:

Tommy was The Man!

:super:

Now, despite your inappropriate beating of the Tom Tom(asello) and the obvious errors in your quote above . . .

Could we get back to the subject of this thread?

:salut:

Some thoughts
 

DG,
10-20 Trigger types don't define the type of swinger you are but as I've said before if you're going to run 100% with Tommy then you'll have some issues as far as the "book" goes - in my opinion.

As I've said before - that doesn't or shouldn't discount the fact that Tommy was a great personality, a devoted AI for Homer and a great guy I'm sure! I'm sure with his close contact with Homer and his passion for the Machine - he was a great instructor, friend, etc. for you and many others- including Lynn.

Now, if you were going to pick one person after Homer's passing that had the knowledge of the book and the passion to spread it - then no one touches Lynn Blake in that category! At the time that Lynn re-entered the scene in 2005? He was - in my opinion - the ONLY AI (I know he's not an "official" AI now) to sufficiently understand and fully grasp the concepts that Homer Kelley outlined in his book. Therefore, if he ever says something that doesn't match with your understanding - then I'd listen real carefully.

However, that's why these forums are always interesting because everyone has their own opinion!

Perfect timing for an in-depth video on each of the 10-20 components and it probably wouldn't hurt to integrate it with 10-24. How about it???

DG

Ok Masters of TGM lets get back on the subject of the thread..."HK's Right Arm Swing Recommendation" Ok.....What are the recommendations?

1) the subject in question would perform his best golf swings with a right arm swing.

2) Right Arm Swinging supplies more power than left arm swinging. That coming out of the mouth of one Homer Kelley...I agree.

Play ball...

DG

DG

You wrote-: "Right Arm Swinging supplies more power than left arm swinging. That coming out of the mouth of one Homer Kelley...I agree."

Where did HK make that statement? In that video, HK only stated that the particular golfer may do better with right arm swinging. He didn't state as a generic rule that right arm swinging would supply more power than left arm swinging.

Jeff.

Jeff,

I would suggest you transcribe the minute long conversation....second, I would go back and watch the Chapter 5 video from Tommy...

at the end of Homer's comments.....he says..."some are good left arm swingers....there's there's this power that he's got on that....." Homer is interupted by one of his students who says something to the effect.....would it be good for right handers to become Right Arm swingers and HK agrees....."that's a good point'. Homer didn't get the chance to finish his thought....but, I'm bettin man and I would say he was going to say right arm.

DG


DG

Not a Spinster....
 

Don't agree....based on my experience with personally studying with Tommy....listening to my audio cassettes of my instruction. I really don't believe for a second that Tom Tomasello put his own spin on TGM.

DG

Bad form
 

Little Green Man?:naughty: