Clubface Control
 

I would like to start a thread here on clubface control.

The PGA of America has stated that the clubface is twice as important as path.

Do y'all agree or disagree???

I have a lot more to say on this subject, but would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

Since the face strikes the ball, then YES it is, BUT clubHEAD Path effects clubFACE too. Control the face all you want but if it is coming Out to In then your perfect hinge action is not going to produce the desired ball flight. (and it wouldn't be a perfect Hinge Motion)

To me clubface control is producing the proper hinge motion and wrist condition per Chapter 5. "Hands- Hands- Hands" since you swing the Hands/Monitor the Hands and NOT the clubFace.

I'd probably start by clarifying what is meant but "twice" -
1) twice as important in the direction of the initial ball flight?,
2) Just a general comment that clubface control versus clubpath control will improve your game twice a fast?
3) Or some other meaning or context for "twice"?

Great point on the hands.

My favorite quote in "The Golfing Machine" is actually in the Preface p.XI of the seventh edition. Homer states, "The number one alignment is the flate left wrist. The flat left wrist is a golfing imperative. Without it, more information means only more confusion."

The Flat Left wrist is Clubface Control. I believe when the PGA of America states Clubface Control is on a 2 to 1 ratio of importance to path. They are in line with what I believe Homer is saying. You must learn to control the clubface first and to do that you must have a geometrically flat left wrist at impact.

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

Here's an angle
 

I am not to concerned about what the PGA of America states how about the universal laws of force and motion. Many people state things. Mr. Kelley has laid an outstanding system before us. Gravity is Gravity!

It's Not too Late . . . Come Join Us!
 

In an unabashed threadjack . . . :) . . .

Jeff Evans is one of 13 TGM Authorized Instructors from around the world who will be with us at Cuscowilla. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...2944#post52944

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:salut:

Jeff,

The universal laws of force and motion, geometry and physics are what every teacher should teach, and Homer has done a great job of laying it out for us.

However we can also use the catalog to validate or discount other sources that is the beauty of The Golfing Machine.

As a PGA of America Member I found this statement interesting and wanted to share it with the Lynn Blake Golf community. To do just that validate or discount it.

I have found looking at other sources of information has improved my understanding of The Golfing Machine either by seeing their mistakes or symmetry to Homer's great work.

Have a great time at Cuscowilla.

Sorting Through the Circuit Player's Handbook.

B-Ray

Interesting that it also indirectly implies that the focus should be on the hands! :salut:

But of course....its all in the shortest chapter in the book- chapter FIVE.

Swing the Hands, Swing the Flying Wedges- the whole book is in those flying wedges.

I'd say it's a game of "face" . . . . the angle of the face makes the ball go far or short at a given speed . .. .it makes it go high or low at a given speed . .. . so why would it not be THE biggest factor in direction/curvature. It is THE factor in starting direction and it's relation to the path is the factor in curve.

My question would be more like how much face rotation is actually necessary to produce a "serviceable" shot? I think there is some danger in misunderstanding hinging and swiveling. .. . leading to the belief that you have to "wrap the face around the ball" to hit a draw. You can hit a draw with ANY hinge action. . . long as the face is closed to the path and open to the target.

I would recommend to all one of them face angle magnet deals. Pretty interesting to see the relationship of shaft lean, plane angle shifts, starting direction etc. that you can get from that deal.

One thing that has made a HUGE difference in my chipping/pitching is rather than opening the face at address moving the handle back and laying the face back. That really sets you up with a major bent left wrist. Then I just rotate my stance left until I have an in-line relationship. The ball still thinks the shaft is vertical and the face is laid back . .. .but to me it looks like shaft lean based on my stance. Makes soft chips much easier for me. I can't play golf without the "look" of shaft lean.

Face Fan
 

Great post, Bucket. Thanks!

:salut:

Life in the old dawg yet!
 

One thing that has made a HUGE difference in my chipping/pitching is rather than opening the face at address moving the handle back and laying the face back. That really sets you up with a major bent left wrist. Then I just rotate my stance left until I have an in-line relationship. The ball still thinks the shaft is vertical and the face is laid back . .. .but to me it looks like shaft lean based on my stance.

good stuff! Good example of geometric v. visual FLW, right?

Sorta . . . . Try this . . . . set the club up square . . move the handle back so the face lays down (basically lay it back) . .. the shaft will be vertical or even more back than verticle to the ground. So your not really "opening the face" as much as you are LAYING IT BACK. Notice how your left wrist is bent . . . . now just open up your stance until it FLATTENS out your left wrist and the club is in-line with your left arm. So the ball gets "Bucket's shaft is vertical to the ground . .. I'd better go up in the air and land soft." But Bucket's eyes get "dude you have the package . . . sorry power package in an inline condition." I just can't do throwaway. This is essentially like throwaway without losing your alignments.

HennyBogan helped me figure this deal out . . . .

Gumdrop
 

I have seen this out on tour. From the fee side of the gallery ropes of course! Face laying back with its ugly BLW, but I did not get how the open stance fixed the visual. As you know I name all of my shots I called this one "gumdrop." I have a better understanding of how to do it...thanks to you as well as Henny.

so your wrist is bent when the stance is square and you move the handle to lay it back . . . so just open your stance until the left wrist IS REALLY flat . . . Opening the stance flattens the wrist and gets the shaft in-line with the left arm. It looks like lean to you but to the ball the shaft is still vertical.

?
 

I went outside to give it a whirl. That is a mega-open stance line, no?

Depends on how much layback you want . . . can be. I just adjust until I feel comfortable with the "look" of the shaft lean. Sometimes not so much open sometimes lots open. Depends on the shot.

Just imagine that face angle magnet deal on the sweetspot. So if you want to just "knock the breath outta the ball" . . . then lay it back. Lay it back so that stick out of the sweet spot is pointing UP and not so much forward. But obviously you want to set the face for the shot. This way you can basically use a technique that you are used to (keeping the left wrist flat right wrist bent) and not have to do some major hand stuff to get the club to lay back.

I have always loved to hit basic motion chips. But the problem is when you have that much shaft lean it's really easy to hit chips that are too "drivey". It was really good for low checkers. But not so good for other stuff. So when I had to use lay back I strugged because to lay it back enough the handle had to back up. But with this deal you basically "pre-lay it back." Then you put the basic motion move on it with an open stance.

But when I lay it way back or open it way up I don't like the way the shaft looks. It looks like flip city waitin' to happen. So just open up until you feel comfortable. The ball has no idea what your stance is. And if your stance causes you to swing really left . . . not really a big deal because we are hitting a short shot and not really worrying about curving it. We want to get the energy going UP not forward so much. Plus hit helps you hit it "spinny" too.

This thread was originally about clubface contol. I think mostly interms of full shots. But I'd say the closer you get to the hole the more dominate the face relationship is. Chips and pitches pretty much don't deviate from the way the face is looking at separation. So it's more of a loft deal and a spin deal. No curving to worry about really. I guess the path is significant. But more interms of spin and trajectory than direction.

Just like a putt you can hit soft shots around the green by having the left wrist bent and leaving it bent through the entire stroke. This would be the equivalent of the flat left wrist.

Shot
 

For soft shots why not have a forward leaning shaft with an open stance and open club face. You must close the face coming through the shot and the shot will be high and soft.

Witcha but my mind can't deal with bent wrist . . .