"Snapping the Kinetic Chain" - a new myth for the golf swing.
 

"Snapping the Kinetic Chain" - a new myth for the golf swing.

A golf swinging human body is not a bull whip with gradually diminishing diameter in a long chain or thong. It is a structure with levers, fulcrums, muscles, and limitations/strengths not available to a whip.

The left arm is a fulcrum at the left shoulder. It can be pulled around by shoulder turn, and at the end of it is a hand, a clamp, that holds the club. But the shoulders have two arms, the right arm separated from the left by about 18", to which is attached a two levered arm, and again a hand at the end for clamping. That hand also has use of muscles in the forearm that can add force from palmar flexion prior to or during impact.

If you "stop" the shoulders turning prior to impact, there is no speedup of the arms. If you stop the hands moving forward prior to impact, there is no speedup of the club head. If you stop the left shoulder pulling the left arm prior to impact, there is no speedup of the left hand. As said, it is not a tapered structure.

In fact, the faster the HANDS CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE through impact the faster the club head itself gets propelled into the ball. By necessity the left shoulder HAS to slow down prior to impact: it is because the human body simply can't get there with the left hand dragging behind: its range of motion isn't sufficient. And this is one of the reasons for the straightening of the RIGHT arm on the way to the ball: to provide more force AND MORE MOTION THROUGH impact -- precisely to KEEP the left hand from slowing down.

If you slap a stick into a tree hard, it breaks off by contact with the tree. You LOSE; you don't gain force, by slowing down prior to impact on the tree. On the contrary, the harder you continue to drive your right hand, the louder and more forceful the smack. This is what the right hand does, in support of the weaker left arm being pulled by the rotation of the left shoulder.


3-D golf analyzers measure the sequence motion of the hips, shoulders, arms and hands. They do not measure thrust and torque So how can they say slowing down adds speed to the club head. The bottom line is they just want instructors and golfers to buy their 3-D golf swing analyzers for big $$$$.


"Snapping the Kinetic Chain" is just another myth that will ruin the True G.O.L.F. Motion.

Opinion
 

You make a few good points. But is this just your opinion? Do you have anything to back up your claims other than your word? What qualifies you to make these statements?

Please explain

Take a look at this link.

http://www.advancedmotionmeasurement...dDownswing.pdf

What is going on in the graft on the down swing is the lower body can only go as far as the internal rotation of the left hip allows. This is why you see the hips slow down just before impact. In the graft it shows the lower body slow down as it reaches the limit of the flexibility of the left hip internal rotator. This will then slow down the shoulders, arms and hands. To prevent the hips from stopping before the finish the right foot pivots up on to the big toe and the hips, shoulders, arms and hands coast to the finish. This down swing action does not add club head speed or snap the kinetic chain as they want us to believe.

Mike Austin’s power secret was that he applied thrust and torque to the handle snapping the club head maximizing club head speed on the down swing. Here is how he did it. At the start of the down swing his left arm which is connected to the upper body which is connected to the lower body provided an opposing force to the thrust and torque of the right hand and arm. This opposing force activates muscles in the body to try to prevent the thrust and torque from moving down for a fraction of a second.

Then the opposing force is overpowered and the thrust and torque release, snapping the club head with maximum acceleration through impact. If is a very powerful move and is not detected with this analysis program. Until the thrust and torque values on the down swing are tested with proper equipment it is impossible to understand what is really going on. With this analysis program they would think it is due to a snapping effect of the slowdown of the hips, shoulders, arms and hands. This is not what is happening.

With Mike Austin’s swing pattern applying thrust and torque to the handle on the down swing the graft measurements of speed in this link would look similar for the lower body, upper body and arms but the club head speed will be off the chart with maximum club head speed from the thrust and torque applied to the handle. The club head speed gains can be as much as 15 mph when using this action. How do you explain for the added club head speed with this system? You can’t. This chart at best is just showing the speed or mph of the hips, shoulders, arms, hands and club head on the back swing and down swing through impact and to the finish. It is not showing how this added club head speed is obtained.

I am now working with a program that shows the thrust and torque values applied to the handle during the down swing including the percent of club head speed gains with this action. I am testing a swinging pattern without the thrust and torque applied to the handle during the down swing. A hitting pattern with thrust only applied to the handle during the down swing and a swinging and hitting pattern with thrust and torque applied to the handle during the down swing.

The results so far show there are little differences in just swinging or hitting. When both thrust and torque are applied to a swinging or hitting pattern I am seeing gains of 5-15 mph depending on the level of the golfer. I also tested a long drive golfer and he increased his club head speed 15 mph with the thrust and torque added to the down swing. He was at 135 mph before and 150 mph after. He might make it to the finals this time with that club head speed.

The point to all this madness is it is an easy way to increase club head speed for the weekend golf without increasing down swing pivot speed. More club head speed with accuracy. The snap the kinetic chain folks want you to increase the down swing pivot speed and put the brakes on just before impact. Now that is ridicules and does not add club head speed.

At the carnival the fish speed up because of the small pulley and the endless belt effect.

Do they speed up or is it an illusion? I believe the belt does not change speed.

Mike Austin’s power secret was that he applied thrust and torque to the handle snapping the club head maximizing club head speed on the down swing. Here is how he did it. At the start of the down swing his left arm which is connected to the upper body which is connected to the lower body provided an opposing force to the thrust and torque of the right hand and arm. This opposing force activates muscles in the body to try to prevent the thrust and torque from moving down for a fraction of a second.

[/quote]

I tried that before its actually an interesting concept...have you considered using another part of your body as an opposing force against the right hand/arm??

Ok
 

Good answer. I am not sure I completely understand how to apply Mike Austins move though.
In regards to the guys who explain the kinetic chain. Lets take TPI for instance. You are correct in that it is the flexibility, mobility, stability, and strength in the various segments of the body that allow this snapping to take place. Not an effort of the golfer to do so manually. Some are more gifted physically and some have been trained to just do it better and faster.
The more powerful hitters segments decelerate faster. Again not manually, they just do it. Because they are physically able.
Now you can train your body to be more flexible, mobile, stable, and how to decelerate faster in the gym. Then as a result it will show that you snap it better. But just actually trying to do it probably won't do any good. Better for the golfer to just try to maintain his lag and drag and let that stuff take care of itself.:golf:

According to PureHitter's post- you're still caught up in the illusion - mistaken thought, that decelerating causes the club head to speed up. Therefore, if I read your post correctly- you're saying that it is a benefit- "snapping the kinetic chain", that you should not only train to increase your flexibility, mobility, stableness but also learn how to "decelerate faster in the gym". Then you discount everything you've said by finishing with "But just actually trying to do it probably won't do any good. Better for the golfer to just try to maintain his lag and drag and let that stuff take care of itself"

If you find an interest - please clarify- because your post is confusing to me.

I tried that before its actually an interesting concept...have you considered using another part of your body as an opposing force against the right hand/arm??[/quote]

When I was working with Mike Austin he tried to explain how he was doing this move. I on the other hand figured out if you apply opposing pressure at the fulcrum it would produce the results Mike was talking about. It was easy to do and you could repeat it. I am sure there are other ways to make this move. If you have any ideas please share them in the lab.

Can you show me where the "author" of this theory made this claim?

Do you mean actively trying to stop the pivot in order to generate additional speed or just letting it happen?

Again, if you could provide references to the above that would be great. Thanks

I wonder if “snapping the kinetic chain” is the cause of Tigers left knee problems.

the flamingo
 

One would think that hyper-extension of the knee would be ruled out as a power source, after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th surgery. Maybe someone could mention "Double Anchor" as an option.

quitting is for quitters
 

Let the folks moor themselves in the sea of their own Bowel Movements.

Muscles stretch and shorten. When we have Pivot Lag, we've created a stretch. When the muscles shorten or contract, they pull between each point of contact. Neither point remains a fixed point in three dimensional space. Therefore, when the muscle contracts it's pull is through the length of the muscle, and it pulls in both directions.

So, here's an over-simplification:
Point A accelerates, point B drags and the muscle stretches.
When the muscle contracts between A and B, it decelerates A and accelerates B, even though they both have forward momentum.
Point A has no choice but to slow down.

A fool would try to stop the hammer just before it hit the nail.
:iamwithst

As long as it works.
 

It's a procedure ("Throwaway"), which can be useful, if handled properly. The key is timing the snap (or "Release/Throwaway').

It can be, if the moving parts kept passive and flexible enough.

Again, due to the "Geomery of the Circle" and "Physics of Rotation", they can speed up. Actually, the distal portion tends/wants to speed up ("Overtaking') in the circle. However, in the meantime, it's "Releasing" ("Throwaway") as well. The key is to prevent it from speeding up (being released) prematurely-delay the "Release", so that the ball is hit while the clubhead is releasing, instead of being released. A released clubhead (might have speed, but) has no thrust (for resisting against the "Impact Deceleration"). Delaying the "Release" doesn't produce delayed "Release". No (or resist against the) "Release" (or "Sustain the Lag") does.

Sounds like the procedure of "left arm pulls and right arm pushes'-"Switting", which can work beautifully, again, if handled peoperly.

People have different perspectives and purposes. If they measured something slows down and others speed up, so be it. Can't see any problem with that. Like people saw "Stationary Head" and tell you to keep your heady steady, so do for the "Flat Left Wrist" and "Bent Right Wrist" and "Forward lean" of the shaft through impact.

It's one of the procedures covered.

Besides that, what Mr. Austin didn't tell you is that he probably has the latest "Release" through impact, intentionally done or not.

Sorry Coltsfan but I had to delete your message.

There are instructors that promote this method and they cannot access this site to defend its principles, so please leave their names and website links out of this thread.

Thanks,

There is a purpose to purposely "brake" which can change the angle of approach of the right forearm and increase the closing rate of the clubface

i agree
 

I understand the purpose, but I would question the precision.

When talking strictly about generating speed and "purposely braking", I think it's snake oil.

Could you...
 

When I was working with Mike Austin he tried to explain how he was doing this move. I on the other hand figured out if you apply opposing pressure at the fulcrum it would produce the results Mike was talking about. It was easy to do and you could repeat it. I am sure there are other ways to make this move. If you have any ideas please share them in the lab.[/quote]

...give us a demonstration of this???

...give us a demonstration of this???[/quote]

Working on a video. I will post it when it is done.

I stand corrected.

Keeping the right foot on the ground through impact does slow down the hips.

Could this be a key for golfers to "snapping the kinetic chain" for more distance?

Here is a slow motion video of the late great Sam Byrd, Jimmy Ballard’s teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XCFpJobEwM

Notice Sam's pivot which is nothing like Jimmy teaches or as I call it the flat footed pivot through impact.

I can see in this video that there is defiantly a “Snapping the Kinetic Chain” going on here. I did some testing on it a little tonight and I did produce a little more club head speed working with this pivot. The swing did feel more in sequence as well.

Sam Byrd learned this action from Bill Mehlhorn. I have seen video of Bill hitting balls doing it as well. Both Sam and Bill were long ball hitters.

I can remember just before I started working with Jimmy Ballard in the early 90's I use to have this flat foot pivot that I learned from my dad. I could hit my wood driver 270-280 down the middle. Then I changed my pivot to Jimmy Ballard's fire the right side pivot lifting the right heel of the ground well before impact and I was only hitting it 250 -260 with a slight pull. I even had a new Taylor Made bubble driver as well.

I have never gone back to the flat foot pivot but I think I will now.

Could this flat foot pivot be a key for golfers to snapping the kinetic chain better and add distance? I will find out. I will do some more testing with golfers and my swing and see.

It is amazing how much you can see with this old time footage!

Count Yogi has a flat foot pivot through impact too! Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOHoaA3BbU

Perry
 

Kenny Perry's not too old, but he certainly keeps the foot down through Impact. I often use something in my teaching to demonstrate this very point.

I have no issue with the segments slowing and transferring momentum to the next segment. It's the intent that I question. Do they slow? Yes. Can the intent to "brake" increase speed? I highly doubt it.

I feel its helpful to those without enough pivot lag.. and have a shoulder the leads too far into the swing which would cause the person to look like they are bent over in the finish, or staying in their forward tilt whatever you want to call it...its a way to fix this...not necessarily a percision move but taking someone from one end of the spectrum to the other imop

With the 3-D machines I can find out if a flat foot pivot or trying to brake the hips will add club head speed and if so can a golfer learn to do it. I am going to check it out. Here is a slow motion video of Tiger keeping the right foot down through impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2o1SYXaOHE

His foot is not flat at impact

calling Yoda!!!
 

Yesterday, Yoda shared with me his conversation with Homer on this subject. I'll let him give the first hand account. But, I'm confident that Homer was of the same opinion.

Yoda leaves today for the Barclays, so I'm not sure when he'll get to a computer.

so if 3-d machines and testing is done accurately and the cesar is proven correct on kinetic chain snap would you still believe homer or would you believe cesar?

Chapter 2
 

"if 3-d machines and testing is done accurately" is your first leap of faith. Additionally, you're not including one of the most important aspects of the testing...reading the data!!!!! Even the great people at TPI admit that they can't tell you when muscles are firing or what muscles are firing. I've also heard all the hyperbole from the self-proclaimed geniuses that don't visit this site, but they still want you to take them seriously. Conclusions from the data are often reached without logical reasoning and without considering the (Newtonian) physics found in Chapter 2:

"Force and Motion Vectors must comply with Newton’s first three laws;
The Law of Inertia: Newton’s First Law. There is no change in the motion of a body unless a resultant force is acting upon it.
Force and Acceleration: Newton’s Second Law. Whenever a net (unbalanced) force acts on a body, it produces an acceleration in the direction of the force, an acceleration that is directly proportional to the force and inversely proportional to the mass of the body.
Reacting Forces: Newton’s Third Law. For every acting force there is a reacting force that is equal in magnitude but opposite in direction."

"would you still believe homer or would you believe cesar?" Here you are questioning my ability to reason. Firstly, I base my teaching on the laws of geometry and physics. Secondly, I use the book (TGM), Lynn, Homer's audio tapes, and other scientific studies as reference materials.

So, am I the more reasonable person for having the cornerstones of my teaching being laws of force and motion?

Or, would it be more reasonable for me to blindly follow a talking head with data in his hand?

I never believe anything because someone says that it's so. I've heard plenty of if-then statements that don't make sense, even though there was "supporting" data.

P.S. It's always wise to check the sights on your pistol before firing.

I understand that say our body. the knees , hips and shoulder travel twice as much as the other . So at the top of the swing, the knees is 22.5*, hip 45* and shoulder 90* as a guideline.

My question is

Would these speed and angle component be accelerating at the same time, decelerating at the same time? Or they follow a certain sequence?

I have no 3D data or anything.. but I think they are the later.

2m3 and pivot lag , are I know very important.

2nd part of the question.

What if we intentionally aim to make the speed of the knees or hip go and go and no brakes throughout the swing.
Will there be problems caused by this?..

Chill pills seem a prerequisite with tgm. Just asked a basic question since cesar is shouting from the rooftops that anyone who does not believe him is stuck in the dark ages.
Frankly i dont even care about the kinetic chain or tpi data or who is correct and the history of mankind shows how wrong most scientists are and the future will do the same

p.s i check my pistol daily and dont need any snake oil either

flat right foot and pivot rotation
 

Neither of the above "snaps the kinetic chain", with the top a rotational "Swinger" and the bottom rotational "Hitter". How can someone snap the "Accumulators" with a flat trail foot?:naughty:

What is your proof that this does not work Mr. Ying Yang and what does snap it?

depends how and when you exert pressure with your feet

our mission
 

It's hard to take your original question any other way. You were more or less asking if I would believe Homer if he said the sky was falling. If there's another way to take the question, I'd like to hear it.

Additionally, it's not my job to cure someone with an inferiority complex. I can pray for him, but I can't change him. He can shout and condemn as much as he'd like, if he thinks it will bring him peace.

Mission statement for LynnBlakeGolf:
You want to play better golf - now! - and we're here to help you do it! This is an attitude of servanthood, which has manifested itself in great accomplishments from Brian Gay, John Riegger, Jay Williamson, Greg Kraft, Scott Dunlap, Jeff Hull, etc. If these are the Dark Ages, I'm staying.

It's not a mission statement that craves personal attention and adoration.

right no problem with me since im impartial when it comes to the bickering within the tgm fraternity but it is difficult i imagine for people to sort out exactly what is the meaning of different aspects of the yellow book when so many interpretations from the experts etc etc

been there, done that
 

I agree. I tried for years to understand TGM. Lynn understood it like no G.S.E.D. that I'd ever met, and he was kind enough to help me.

Helping Hands
 

That would be "help US" :happy3: .