Take a look
 

I was wondering if the good people here could take a look at this swing and let me know your thoughts.

Sorry on the file size (I wanted to keep the quality, although I will look at compressing it a bit when I get time) and the fact part of me is missing but hopefully it can give you some idea.

http://www.thegolferschoice.com/myswing/2008-07-20.avi

Compressed it using divx
http://www.thegolferschoice.com/mysw...0 - Lo Res.avi

it looks pretty good to me Toolish.

However, I have no credentials whatsoever :eyes:

I believe you can get them at the place you bought your scruples.:laughing9 :laughing1

I feel like I come out of my posture a bit through impact, and that is a bit of a result of being too far from the ball and weight too on my toes at set up so I have started standing a bit closer and making sure my weight is more mid foot.

Also, cant tell with these videos but the club is a bit laid off at the top, so next step will be to work on getting that more on plane.

Doesn't play on my windows.

the lo-res or high res?

A couple of days after posting I realised the high-res may not play as it uses a panasonic codec that came with my video camera.

The low res should work though, it uses a divx codec which is reasonably common...

On the low res- I hear the sound of hitting the golf ball but no video. I've analyzed the sound and have determined that you are not keeping your left arm straight:eyes: - call for me details.

Take 3:

http://www.thegolferschoice.com/myswing/low_res2.wmv

Hope quality is ok still

Got it now! I'll post my thoughts tonight when I have time to look at it more. Bagger, please block 12 piece from this thread :naughty:

Calling HG
 

HG,
Is it easy to put up your frame by frame swing photo's on Toolish? I have no idea - so if it's a lot of work just let me know. It would be easier to describe for me by referencing a certain frame versus a general description of a certain location in the swing on the video.

Holla Back!

My View
 

Toolish,

Great stroke! I like the way you do not go beyond top.

It seems as though the right wrist flattens a bit at impact. Considering you seems to use a 10-9-B address, perhaps sensing the amount of right wrist bend and keeping that amount (as best as you can) until both arms straight would help.

Another observation: You seem to move off the ball a bit (a lot less than a lot of very good players, though.) Do you utilize the right forearm takeaway, or more of a shoulder turn takeaway? I am not adept at telling the difference at this point except to say that a shoulder turn takeaway CAN promote a sway, whereas a right forearm takeaway helps keep the noggin centered and stationary. Check out the pic in the gallery showing Hogan in the follow through. My pet topic right now it the right forearm's angle of approach. If you are not getting stoney compression then you are probably running out of right arm, which will lead to the right wrist bending in order to make contact.

DTL it looked like your shaft is supported by the right forearm, so a lot is done well.

You also mentioned that you come out of your posture...something I think that can be connected to a shoulder turn takeaway. My on plane right forearm simply travels around my rib cage. My shoulders are turned...they do not turn themselves. Check out David Orr's explanation of the RFT.

Be encouraged though...you have a great golf stroke! :salut:

Toolish Sequence
 

Mike O

Here you go for a Face On view.:)

Toolish Talent
 

Great swing, Toolish. Lots to learn from this action!

:salut:

hg....thanks for the break down!

Yoda...thanks for the compliment.

See below. l

Thanks HG! Not sure I'm going to use it now but it might help if the thread continues.

Let's start with nice swing! and move on to more valuable information- how to make it better. I'll just give you a couple of ideas of what I would look at if it was my swing- and a couple of guesses of why they might be there, then you can use or not use the information depending on how you see it. I think the value will be in reading between the lines at the approach versus any specific observation.

Naturally or consciously or subconsciously- we all make corrections based on the ball flight and a lot of times those corrections are just compensations for other faulty movements. So if we looked at your swing in regards to what items might cause you to hit it right and what items might cause you to hit it left - here's a list.

Items that may help you hit the ball to the right i.e. prevent a pull left
1) Notice the set up with the last second adjustment of the hips turning to the right
2) I can't tell but I'd guess that your clubface is slightly open - with the clubshaft leaning forward ala impact fix- the leading edge should be "closed" in relation to the shaft angle- it's easy to line up the leading edge to the shaft angle as viewed from above i.e. the player's perspective- creating an open clubface
3) On the downswing- we have the standing up the first frame or two - I would add that you may have worked on a delayed release or snap release- as this standing up actually allows you to amplify the delayed release- and it's feel - I definitely think you'll need to move away from that to improve the movement.
4) As a result of the stand up / delayed release- you have very little rotation of the lower or upper body coming into impact
5) Notice that into the follow through (you can see this on the down the line sequence better) and through to the finish- how the weight gets up on the front of the left foot - enough for the heel to come off the ground and rotate backwards? That weight on the front of the left foot is another rotation preventing move to help you not pull it.

Now what are the items that you have in the movement that want to cause you to hit the ball left- that all of the above items are compensating for?
1) Tough to see but I get the feeling that you are not really getting the right forearm and body - completely behind the loading motion of the club and therefore you're loading an over the top movement- in which the above items are used to offset.
2) While you may have worked on the delayed release to get rid of the flattening right wrist movement coming into impact - it hasn't stopped the right wrist from flattening prematurely- and that flattening of the right wrist closes the clubface prematurely- so the delayed release hasn't helped that issue.

You need to start working on putting the puzzle pieces together - by directly correcting the "left issues" and then also inconjunction - eliminating the compensating "right" issues.

Regarding item #2 of the left issues- the flattening right wrist- if you are not doing this you need to make sure that you are "trying" to contact all of your shots with the feel of the clubface contacting the ball above the equator - on a downward blow. Drive a dimple or two up from the equator- Sandwedge halfway up from the equator to the top of the ball and the rest of the clubs based on the clubshaft length- somewhere in between. You never "try" to hit the ball at or below the equator for any non-putting stroke. If you do - you'll have that wrist flattening.

Finally, on the face on video- looks like the right hand is off the club at the finish- as the club wraps around your back? Make sure that you retain the grip throughout.

Toolish, you lucky bleep!
 

That must be a great help to you Toolish.

Very lucky to get such a critique.

I must put mine up!

Forget what I said! Let us go with MikeO on this!:rolleyes:

Stankbreath,

Pretty impressive typing for having all them boogers on your key board . . . Questions on your anal . . . ysis.

What's wrong with setting the face open? Why do you think the right wrist flattens? How can he come "over the top" if he doesn't have upper body rotation?

holla back.

Toolish DTL Sequence
 

Here's the DTL view ...this may help with the analysis:)

Dear Ugly and Stupid,
Without going into the whole hinging, clubface motion thingy- let's just say that if you set the face more open than needed- then you have to have a closing offset- the easiest of those are 1) flip, 2) over the top, 3) don't transfer weight to the lead foot- all power reducing items. So if you want to hit it out of your shadow- I'm not a fan of open faces.

The right wrist in general could flatten for a million reasons- definitely the general "off plane" motion might require it to flatten to not miss the ball. But my first few checkpoints or faults to look for would be 1) the player needs to flatten it to close the face, 2) the player is not directing the lag i.e. sweetspot to the top of the ball - but they are improperly trying to direct it where the clubface actually contacts the ball.

The over the top comment was more subtle or theoretical. Plus I didn't say or mean to say that he comes over the top- I said or meant to say that he might be loading improperly- which normally would create an over the top motion- however he compensates by standing up, which with the vertical armswing in relation to the body makes it easy to have a lot of wrist cock- which all could be compensations for the improper loading of the club.

Now, it is natural handspeed that determines the amount of release delay someone might/should have- not vica versa - so again theorizing- let's assume his natural handspeed is faster than that deep release would allow- which would leave the face open at impact- now he compensates by slowing during release- and the right wrist flattens. You can start to see the complications of the puzzle and the difficulty in properly identifying the correct cause for the perceived problem. So Bucket - are you breathing in or out on the backswing and what are your ears doing?:eyes: :confused1

P.S. Bucket- I just want to make sure that we are in agreement on our contract- I get $10 for every stroke that I can increase Toolish's handicap- so if I take him from a 5 handicap to a 20 - you're going to send me $150 cash- correct?

HG- Thanks for the DTL sequence!

Frames 5,7,8 show the standing up motion- as the red marker starts on the ear in 5, and then moves away from the ball.

I think the sequences - frame by frame - will help if some one doesn't see something- it'll be easier to point out the issues by using the frames.

Also, For me- frame 8 is impact but unless I'm getting confused by the camera angle - it doesn't look like enough body rotation- the shoulders are practically square to the target- all of that is there to compensate for some "left" issue in the swing. I'd rather see Toolish's body location at impact - as it is in frame 10. But you need to not just get in a position but understand the motion that produces that position.

Finally, when you change one thing- say the right wrist doesn't flatten- then you should see the ball fly off to the right- perfect. Now, you just need to get one or more of the "block right" compensations taken out of the movement. It's not instant ball flight correction that you're looking for based on one change.

MikeO,

could you explain how one works to get from impact frame 8 to an impact look frame 10? what motion would be required? This would be a faulty pivot i guess? how would you go buy explaining the required motion?

very interesting analysis bt:golf: w!

Cracksniffer,

Oh I think you are well on your way to earning the $150 . . .

How do you hit a draw if you are not a fan of open faces?

Do you think the the flattening right wrist is a symptom or the disease?

Gotta run I got Charter on the line . . . they have been knocking on a door in your neighborhood . . . . I'm trying to explain that the window on your front door ROLLS DOWN.

Bootyscratcher,

Could you please give your analysis of the head movement in the "face on" view?

Thanks doo doo ball.

A combination of this.........

Face On

Look at the differences on you left foot between Adjusted adress and Finish.
Start to hit balls with the foot more flared as in finish.

Dtl

Upperbody out of sync with lower.

Make some aquired motions with a tee under your right armpit, and keep it there all the time.

...... I think would help.

You lost me on the draw and open face dillio? Stop eating those boogers and your brain would function better!

flattening right wrist- symptom

If the ball leaves the face at 90 degrees to the leading edge . . . . don't it have to be open to get it to start right of the target line and draw back? Or is you hittin' pull draws?

What is the disease of the flat right wrist?

Boogers taste like chicken.

Your talking open in relation to the eventual "end target"- absolutely. But for a draw the leading edge would need to be closed to the clubhead path. All a little outside of my comments on Toolish.

What is the disease of the flat right wrist? I answered that in the posts above. However, if you'd a different answer- scientist now believe that eating boogers- can cause the flattening of the right wrist.

In Toolish's situation- if he didn't straighten the right arm early and flatten the right wrist then he'd have to rotate more to get to impact. But at the same time- if he's trying to hit the equator or back of the ball- then he can't continue the pivot motion- so he stops it to let the clubhead pass or catch up to the hands. Those are two ideas in relation to his movement- but really there are many, many possible situations for any particular golfer - so you have to look at your movement and figure out the puzzle.

Have you been drinking out of the toilet bowl again?

Please watch the head movement in the face on sequence . . . I think that's where it's coming from. The head movement would also be a symptom so I'd say it's via the pivot components. BUT this is is a VERY VERY nice motion.

trying to catch up on the action in this thread....thanks all for the input!

I don't use a full 10-9-B address...it is sort of bitsa...hands are a bit forward but body is not in a full impact position. I have played around with mid body hands but over time they drift forward again.

I grew up pre TGM using a shoulder turn takeaway but at the moment the feel for me is more RFT than STT, I have also played with a lagging clubhead takeaway which worked well, but have never really got it down. So to answer your question it feels to me like I am using a RFT.

That is more of a squaring of the hips and a forward press...mirror work a couple of weeks ago indicated I had open hips at address so this is a recent addition in an attempt to square the hips and establish some spine angle. If anything I have a tendency to set up with the face closed rather than open, although I do sometimes roll it open excessively early in the backswingI have never worked on a delayed or snap release, I have a random release which tends closer to sweep than snap, I have dealt with that. I have in the past had a very bad flip and dip and IO think some of the body movement may tie back to that. It is definately something I am aware of.Nice tie in...never clicked to that!!Do you think the weight on the toes and the coming out of posture ties into being too far from the ball at address and therefore having the weight too forwardBit confused what you mean here...there may be a bit of OTT maybe linked in with the laid off position at the topI know I have to hit down and out through the ball...it is my key thought when things start to go bad...knowing it and doing it may be different things though!

The acquired with a tee under the right armpit interests me...is that an attempt to get the rght shoulder down plane and more bend in the right arm through impact. Won't the tee fall out around follow through stage?

I can tell you I try to hit the inside of the ball for sure...maybe I need to work on it some more and tie it in with the body rotation. Sure is all a big puzzle. Running out of right arm has always been a big problem of mine...I have never found my secret to getting more bend there. Might have to start up a to do list for the swing!

Your upper body ( shoulders) are a bit closed at impact. Look where your hips are. This is to try to match them better.

It could, but doesnt have to.


Dont forget about the foot which will help the above.

interesting...but then, to keep the pivot going, he must aim where to keep it going throughout? inside aft? top of equator? front of the ball?

thanks!

Very nice swing.

Your pivot and rotation are fine. The only thing I'd suggest is a change in your posture. More specificlly your neck is in a straight line position like Tiger and Adam Scott. I'd consider having a little bend in you neck like Nicklaus and Hogan. Downloaded your video and used the V1 software. Looks like your shoulder turn is putting too much pressure on your neck which is pulling your head slightly down and back. You might be reacting slightly to this by standing up.

The other suggestion is how you waggle. Your using the Hogan waggle. I used this for many years until watching the Jeff Hull and VJ videos. Now I trace the line with the RF.

Just me- I'm not really worried about head movement.