Ben Hogan's Secret
 

I just bought this '55 Sports Illustrated to share this article with my TGM buddies...enjoy:)

Snuff Box and Pronation
 

Couple of questions, would appreciate your thoughts.

Snuff box: Illustration No. 1. Appears that Hogan moved
the snuff box to the top of the shaft? What do you think?

Pronation: The left hand is cupped and the right hand on
top of the shaft. Illustration No. 2. The clubface does open.
Is this due to going from a fix to an extreem adjusted address
in the takeaway? But is this really pronation? In Hogans waggle
Hogan goes to a flat left wrist and bent right wrist but goes on
to say "For all general points and purposes, the backswing is
simply an extension of the way the golfer takes the club back
on the waggle." How can this be? The takeaway seems to be
quite different from the waggle. Yoda says that Hogan has
a single action wrist takeaway which seems to appear in the
pictures. I guess the question is, do you need a standard
wrist action to pronate?

The snuff box and pronation continue to be a puzzle to me,
but I will continue to work on it till I find an answere. Sure would
appreciate your insite.

I'd say he had more of a Lagging Clubhead Takeaway . . . It seems to me that his waggle is getting his hands more in a "delivery" condition than an Impact Condition. Plus it looks like he is prepping himself to get his right elbow "glued" to his rib cage.

Lagging takeaway
 

Hi Buckett, sure enjoy your posts and knowledge. Not sure about
the lagging takeaway. In the 5 lessons, Hogan said "Actually, the hands
start the clubhead back a split second before the arms start back".
In an older book, The methods of the masters, Ken Bowden noted
"Hogans clubhead moves back momentarily before hands start back -
all "drag" eliminated." Makes one wonder?

I've seen Hogan make takeaways that are lagging clubhead and some that are not, presumably for no other reason than to confuse us.

Witcha . . . I think he did whatever he wanted to.

But I think he had some "core" secrets . ..

Can we tell what kind of shots he was trying to hit with the LCT vs. normal?

This is extremely cool of you, thanks hg!

Weak grip/lagging takeaway
 

Reflecting on Hogan's pronation. Seems that Hogan used a
very weak grip and then cupped the left hand, giving an open
clubface without turning the club to the right. Pictures show
the back of the left hand facing the plane Line during the
takeaway. May explain the appearance of dragging and pronation.

Really nice gift - thanks HG!

Thank you so much for sharing, HG .
Very interesting article. U tube is good but I suppose that I'm not the only one to appreciate some old "stuff ".

Anybody want to take a shot at it? Hogan experts? Matt? Wingsnthings?

What the heck is LCT?

Lagging Clubhead Takeaway

Thanks mate.

I don't think it was a matter of what type of shot he was trying to hit, I thought he used more of a LCT earlier in his career almost if not exclusively. As a result, he had a longer backswing, more of a float load, more #2 accumulator lag coming down. With setting the club earlier in the backswing later in his career he had a shorteer backswing, less of a float load, and slightly less #2 accumulator lag coming down. All just my best guess.

Thanks, nice to see the full article.

Basically his setup was all about the fade, and his hands tried as hard as he could to hook the heck out of it.

Hence the reason item #22 in the the checklist for all strokes is capitalized:

DELIVERY LINE ROLL PREP

J. Miller did the same thing, setup at the extreme (weaker grip than most) and just fire those hands through with FULL ROLL!

Did Hogan full roll??? Or did he say he full rolled?

Bucket, can you post that pic I just sent you?

You really want me to put THAT pic up???? If you say so . . . . .

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!! The Hogan one!

Here you are sir . .

This is the one I meant Bucket.



Click on to enlarge.

Attachment 898

Bucks,

A thing of beauty is indeed a joy forever!

UPP in a snowbank in Ohio

Love that photo Mrodock

What is on display here?

I see a fully extended right arm with a still bent right wrist.

An on plane right shoulder. Swinging left?

Anyone else have any insights?

Handle down . . . Left Wrist not fully uncocked . . . Still in his Axis Tilt . . . right heel still down . . . right knee still relatively "in line" with the left . . . Hip Slant . . .

Is he swinging left or simply swinging on plane?

What about the face? What about it's relationship to the plane and the #3 accumulator associated with that plane? Is it Horizontal Hinging or is it not?

Looks like an angle hinge (no-roll) and a delayed swivel. I agree with Bucket, he's not really swinging left, he's just swinging on plane after impact. I call it replaning the club. Hogan and Snead were two of the best in this respect. Chuck Cook has an interesting article on this topic in this month's Golf Digest (Freddie is on the cover).

Big Ben's Time
 

Wedges intact, Educated Hands, On Plane Left, well dressed!

This is the key thing... "Swinging left" is a feel at best .... lets call it what it is "swinging on plane"!!!

Agree with you Bucket....:golf:

12,

This may not have been the pic Mrodock wanted posted, but these 2 pics take on a whole new dimension for me.

After many years of TGM book study I was finally able to get a lesson from an AI this week (and a really good one). As one who has always set up with "low hands" (and a high right forearm) and who has always battled with an under-plane downswing with too much #3 acc..... these 2 pics reflect, precisely, the "goal" I now have for my address and impact right forearm positions.

You've all seen/heard Yoda preach about getting the RF on plane at address and at impact.... I can tell you I have a new found appreciation for that geometry.

CG

For me, the feeling of swinging left is the feel associated with retaining the bend in the right wrist while staying on plane through both arms straight. Normally a thing I feel on shorter shots as I keep the club head low, beneath the handle and the hands work their way up, in (or left) and forward.

Here, I see Mr Hogan keeping his bent right wrist AFTER both arms straight.
I'm guessing a rather fullish mid to low iron with a very trapped golf ball screaming off towards the target.

Is he hitting to the right of the poor cameraman? Is he hitting a draw or a fade? Where is the plane line? Can anyone draw the plane line on this photo? TGM CSI?

I love this point of view. The real meat of the matter.

When do both arms extend completely in an on plane swing? After low point?

Yes. Most emphatically. Both arms straight at about 45 degrees or 4:30 on the dial.

Use the search function, there is much information here.

Impact, low point, then both arms straight means the ball is struck with a bent right arm. Like the boxers punch, it hits the bag bent and thrusts to an in line, spent, position. Knowledge that when combined with a bent right wrist would save the novice much grief and wasted time.

Homer, I believe, thought this to be golf's unique move. In throwing a ball for example the arm straightens and the hand flops over. Great for throwing a ball but disaster for a golf shot. Take another look at Hogan here. Long right arm, bent right wrist. A driver might see momentum straighten out the right wrist perhaps, but it would be quickly re established up plane in the finish.

These aren't my insights. Thanks to Misters Kelley, Hogan and Blake. I should also mention the Cracker Barrel restaurant in Marietta, Georgia. The collective golf knowledge imparted there would be worthy of the Golf Hall Of Fame.