Right Arm Activation
 

Have any of you found that the RIGHT FOREARM TAKEAWAY, and/or PICKUP, can activate the right arm in such a way as to encourage too active of a right arm for a Swinger? The Swinger wants his right arm Passive-- 3 Barrel, during the release sequence.

What do you think?

Right Forearm Takeaway . . . Not Right Hand Takeaway
 

If you're thinking in terms of the right arm (and its Extensor Action), you shouldn't have a problem. However, if you think in terms of the right hand, you're dead.

Why?

Because you will probably cock your right wrist.

And that's where the heartaches begin . . .

:crybaby:

Elevating Arms and Club
 

/////////////////////////////////////

Thanks Mr. Yoda.

The Book in 2-M says the Deltoids raise the arms. These are a group of muscles in the shoulders. The Anterior, Middle, and Posterior Deltoids.

After thinking about this... the arms and club are elevated, by a combination of bicep(right arm) and the deltoids of the right shoulder. It seems that if the deltoids are not doing thier job, possibly due to an injury, the club may tend to go around the body too much, in a very flat plane.

It looks to me that in the picture in 9-1-5, that the right deltoids have been activated, and have given the right shoulder a sort of shrug. If this were not the case, the arms would be hanging nearly the same distance, however, the right hand is higher than the left in the picture. Try this, as in the pictures. The hands do not get back to level to each other until 9-1-8.

What do you think?

The Swinger's Active / Passive Right Arm
 

Remember, even for Swingers, the Right Arm is never completely passive.

The Right Triceps is always active -- from Start Up to Follow-Through -- with Extensor Action (the Right Arm stretching the Left through Pressure Point #1 / the heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb).

Also, driven by the Right Shoulder, the Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- the Right Forearm, Bent Right Wrist and Lag Pressure Point #3 (first joint of the right forefinger) -- will always deliver its 'stiff-wristed slap' (Major Basic Stroke / 10-3-B / usually heavy laden with Clubhead Lag Pressure) directly at the Aiming Point (usually, the Ball).

So, the 'dirty little secret' of The Golfing Machine is that, Hitting or Swinging, Four Barrels or Three, the Stroke is very much a "right arm approach to the whole game" (First Edition / 1-F).

8-)

And rightly so.:)

Right-side
 

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Also... the Right Shoulder and Right Hip. TGM talks about the RIGHT SHOULDER TURN and RIGHT HIP TURN.

OK... What gets that club up there, where the hands and arms are in a good position as in the 10-13 Top pictures? I have heard one explanation that it is like "cranking a lawn mower". What muscles get that club up there. Most don't seem to have a problem with this, but for those that do, it may be helpful to understand this. TGMers are not afraid to go into great detail, and this should be no exception.

Circular 'Fan' Versus Linear 'Push'
 

Properly understood, this is a great analogy for the On Plane Right Forearm Takeaway.

Unfortunately, most 'lawn mower crankers' I see -- even professionals demonstrating -- fail to 'fan' the Right Elbow (as is required for Power). Thus, in this misconception, the Hands remain between the Right Elbow and the Ball, and the Elbow moves straight back along the line the Right Forearm is positioned.

This is Push Basic Stroke (10-3-C), and for full shots demanding Power, trust me . . .

One Plane or Two . . .

That ain't the way it works.

:(

'lawn mower crankers' ..."start the lawnmower" etc is the worst vision to have of the takewaway.

This is how I envision it. You're a card dealer in the middle of a round table. You deal cards to everyone from your left to your right. After you deal the last card to the schmuck on your right, you deal a card to the player behind and above your right shoulder. About 5 o'clock high. (If your head is the center of the clock dial) The elbow doesn't move much but the hand and forearm does.

Take A Card . . . Any Card . . . Anybody!
 

And there you have it.

The Right Forearm Fans (12-5-1-#17).

Great stuff, tradekid.

From Start Up to Top, this is EXACTLY how Homer Kelley -- seated on his chair -- demonstrated the Right Forearm Takeaway to our assembled GSEM Class on January 12, 1982.

Up . . . up . . . and away!!

This is an exciting and important exchange.

Thanks!

:salut:

Good Stuff!
 

Good stuff. I never got the lawnmower analogy because I surely don't start my lawnmower with a RFP motion and never saw my dad start it this way when I was a kid. The lawnmower analogy seems to apply directly to the One Plane Swing suggested takeaway move which is a sawing motion with the right elbow...just like I do when starting a lawnmower, doing one arm bent over dumbbell rows in the gym, or elbowing someone standing directly behind me.

On the other hand, the RFP, feels like I am raising my right arm like I would when getting ready to throw a ball or if I had a spear in my hand getting ready to "stick" something on the ground with the sharp point.

The big question I have always had is if there is a difference between RFP for hitters and swingers. How is the turn and roll of the left wrist reconciled between swingers and hitters or is there a difference? Thanks.

E.

I got a theory on some of this active right arm business that some folks teach with swinging . . .

If you have "perverted" Axis Tilt you have disrupted your relation to low point severely. Thus the compensatory moves that result . . .

The body knows that you some how have to get to the ball so the right arm activates to get the handle and clubhead to the ball . . . the Left Wrist Arches . . . All that head falling back causes major under plane issues and a Plane Line that is shifted well to the right . . . which inturn causes a need for major Swiveling to get the ball to start on some relation to the proper "start line".

the future of golf instruction is the golfing machine !!!!!!!
 

a few quotes might help, dukenasty:

1. 7-1," the grips of hitters and swingers must differ in tightness."

2. 7-9, " whether using address or impact position(7-9) , the swinger must set up a "swinging" motion; the hitter a "carrying" motion(10-19) to comply with the lag loading procedures 7-19-1/2/3. "

and 3. 7-3, " for hitting (10-19-a), the right forearm should be precisely in-line with and directly oposed to - the motion of the on plane loading action(7-22) of the entire prmary lever assembly(6-A) not just the clubshaft, and this alignment maintained thru impact (2-j-3, 4-d). for swinging(10-19-c) the right forearm should be precisely in-line with - and directly opposed to - the motion of he on plane loading action of the secondary lever assembly ( the clubshaft ) and this alignment maintained through impact. "

and to think that on a very inferior website i've been called a book regurgitator. i really can't understand why ?

2008 is the future of golf instruction and the future of golf instruction is the golfing machine revolution !!!!!!
your golfing machine comrade in arms !!!!

book regurgitator

What a great thread. Yoda, thanks for reiterating the role of the right arm in the golf swing. That is what I have been working on for the last several months, and it really is producing good results.

Pictures
 

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Could someone post some pictures of Right Forearm in relation to the "on plane loading" concerning the Swing vs. Hit. There are pictures in 10-3-A and 10-3-B, but some more could be helpful.

you can't call me that .
 

12 piece,

you can't call me that.

i looked up book regurgitator in the devil's dictionary. it is code for a technical term.

it means that you have asked for reasons for assertions made by an egomaniac with an inferiority complex and he has stopped the game by taking his ball and going home.

we will hang the ortodox golf instructors with the rope that they sold us !!!
your golfing machine comrade:salut:

p.s. there are places for people like me.:eyes:

How can you tell the difference between an inferiority and superiority complex in someone that is arrogant?

Arrogant?
 

Who cares? It is the arrogant part that is a turnoff........

I'm a psychology major, these things are important!

Say what?
 

False humility (inferiority) and arrogance (superiority) draw their buckets from the same bitter well spring.

Ola Mrodock,

Psychology. Hmm? A long time to get that degree. Until then, I'll bite. How can you tell the difference? :)

Sooooo tempting Daryl! But I'll leave you alone on this one-only because my potential roomates are falling like flys and I may need to call on you for company!:eyes:

Notice how Bucket just flows in these posts?

Hmm? I must really be missing something. I'm clueless.

Rope Handle
 

OK... back to the topic.

In Swinging, the LEFT ARM is a ROPE, or is ROPE-LIKE. What is the RIGHT ARM then in Swinging? A STRUT, a PISTON with a CLAMP, or what? Some players may even visualize both arms as Ropes, especially with some Float Loading Procedures.

What do you think?

Behold The Man !!!
 

mrodock,

in this particular case i think that if the person had a superiority complex that person would not attack their superior, homer kelley, in such a cheap, shabby and self-aggrandizing way.

i think if this person had a superiority complex they would not kick me off of their website after a couple of innocent questions and the put the entire thread on LOCKDOWN.

and if they felt superior they would in some haughty manner elucidate their grandiose propositions for the entire golfing world to behold !!!

in short the person would be a little less of a laughingstock ! :laughing9

your golfing machine comrade:salut:

Wow, works for me! At least it didn't cost you any $$, some of us learned the hard way.

Lagster,

A strut if swinging for Extensor Action. A piston if hitting for for Drive, a clamp on the left arm to keep the Flying Wedges on plane.

As a swinger, if I think of the "arms" as ropes I lose extensor action and end up with missed shots. Either missing the sweet spot or releasing too soon resulting in a fat shot. If someone has a very fast pivot and good flexibility, "arms as ropes" may be a solution. I don't mind thinking of the left arm as a rope, as long as its a tight one. Float loading still requires structure. An oily left wrist and good timing of the pivot is all thats needed.

It needs to have structure with give. I think the right arm falls somewhere between a rope and a strut. I think that extensor action while it can be very useful can easily be overdone and be detrimental to the swing and encourage throwaway.

The Structured Rope
 

Just remember, a rope stretched is not flimsy. It has structure!

Float Loading's Downstroke Right Elbow -- Bend With Stretch
 

The art form of Float Loading (10-19-B) is to increase the bend in the Right Elbow -- a right biceps action necessary for the Downstroke Left Wristcock (7-3; 10-21-D/E) -- without losing Extensor Action (the Right Triceps stretching of the Left Arm via Pressure Point #1 / the heel of the Right Hand against he Left Hand thumb / 6-B-1-D).

Despite Float-Loading's characteristic 'gentle and lazy' Motion, the Power Package is always structured -- never 'flimsy' -- and its Execution is always deliberate and positive, never 'wobbly' (3-F-6). This Structure -- Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges glued together and stretched with Extensor Action -- is identical to that of Drive and Drag Loading (10-19-A/C).

Bottom line:

It's okay to think of the Arms as ropes . . .

As long as you think of those ropes as stretched.

Right you are
 

I have probably blithered on this point before but right arm participation was my epiphany. It would have been a theophany but I still have to execute! :angel1: Golf for a right hander is a left handed game is what those that meant well told me! :rolleyes: Initially I favored hitting because it reinforced the discovery of my bionic right arm! But as Yoda confirms the right arm is not passive for swinging. I think muscular thrust is far more drastic than most people think...and are not really doing it when they think they are. Why? Extensor Action was unknown to them in both thought and practice. Extensor action had me feeling that my right tricep was driving when in reality it was not. I thought I had "switter's multiple personalities' disorder for a while there. I even thought about becoming a hitter! So...I think learning to hit is helpful in understanding the possibilities of the right arm...then you decide. For twenty years I attempted to keep my right hand out of it, only to reduce my right arm to a shackled villian. Bent and level right wrist takes care of the flapping right hand...now let the right arm's attempt to always straighten along with the corresponding checkrein of the left arm provide the structure you need. If you are a righty it is a right handed game. Period. That way you can giver er' hell!

This is fantastic Yoda! You wrote something along these lines several years ago that I found when searching "float loading" and I guess sometimes I just have to hear something a few times to truly get it! Question for you Yoda, do you think Hogan embodied this structured float loading?

Thanks again for this and all you do!

Matt

Yoda from 6-24-05

Another question Yoda,

Now if my right arm is completely relaxed and I bend the right elbow it bends very easily, but if I contract the Triceps the right elbow does not bend easily (it bends with resistance). Is this the idea, the right elbow bending should not feel effortless but take a LITTLE BIT of force. I'm sure this could easily be overdone and spin out of control.

Thanks,

Matt

Keep in mind that while we talk about the specific motion/action of the left vs. right arm, it is really the entire power package that is being 'swung' or 'carried'.

The hitter is using muscle power - arm power - pressure point #1.

The swinger is using rotational - pivot power - pressure point #4.

Both are moving the 'entire package'.

The lazy flowing backswing of a true swinger simply uses CF to maintain the structure. This works ok if you can always trust the flow of CF, but far better to add/maintain that structure with extensor action.

This one is for you Bucket......

Keep in mind you must "swing the entire package"! See 6-A-1, 6-B-1, 6-B-4

Extensor Action From Start Up to Follow-Through
 

You must continue to stretch the Left Arm.

:)

Ed,

Putting Bucket together with the entire package..........it is going to be a train wreck! :shock:

Another great post! Thanks. :salut:

UPP in freezing Ohio

Yoda

Does the TGM path to true CF swinging often run through "Hittersville"? (And then maybe sometimes back).

I think I heard someplace that Homer thought it easier for the hitter to swing than vice versa. Im guessing it had something to do with structure, extensor action and elbow action and the learning there of.

Any drills for teaching the right elbow to bend while employing extensor action? Down swing waggles?

I’m not a Yoda, but here’s my 2 cents.
At my best, by not consciously using Extensor Action from Startup, I have this need to ‘Leave my hands at the Top’ as I begin my Down Stroke Pivot. Or, if I start my Downswing Pivot before my Backswing ends, then my hands are left at the Top without me having to consciously do so. The Stretch can be felt in my left shoulder but also in my arms. When I use Extensor Action at Startup, then I don’t feel the need to leave my Hands at the Top because the Slack has already been removed. Not entirely, not 100%, but pretty close.
So, to me, Extensor Action takes out much of the ‘Wobble’ and reduces the amount of feelings and motions in my swing. The amount of Extensor Action muscle needed depends on how much Wobble (looseness) exists. I have found it very valuable because I don’t want to disturb or have the #3 pressure point being jerked around at the start of my Downswing.

If I extend my Left arm a slight amount at Startup, then the amount of Extensor Action muscle usage pressure effort, is reduced by a fair amount. But no amount of Extensor Action Muscle power effort can overcome a Left Arm that wants to stay slack.


Addressing the Hitter/Swinger issue:
I can only say that the more I’ve learned, the more I’ve come to realize the Sameness’s are the same but the differences are significantly different. I can’t see how one would lead to the other.