Feel the forces
 

Please note that this is in the lab section... thoughts expressed for discussion...not trying to tell anyone what to do...:laughing9 . You guys in USA have been busy celebrating Thanksgiving but in UK it is just cold and miserable and I have had time on my hands...so here goes...

Dowels can teach alignments ( geometry ...the "G" in G.O.L.F.) but they alone cannot simulate or teach or simulate the forces ( the "F" in G.O.L.F.).

The recognition of these forces and manipulating the direction of thrust allow hands controlled pivot ... within the constraints provided by stationary something, balance and rhythm.

I was looking for a way to combine the purity of dowel alignment with an element of force or physics. It is my belief that if the brain fully understands the task involved in directing force appropriately... all of the good positions in "position golf" are created...but in a way that is easier to remember and reproduce.

Here are 2 images ( apology to Ted - not many hitters photos i could find!! PLEASE NOTE TED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS RAMBLE!!!)




Comments??

These are only meant to teach 7-19 and demonstrate the consequences of loading for hit or swing on 7-3... ie. lag loading and its consequent effect on right forearm alignments and pp3 location at transition...

Please note that a "mini dowel" is essentially grip with laser in butt end to trace staright plane line and attachment to bungee or pulley as appropriate :

- The Swingers mini dowel attaches at tip of grip...to promote a longitudinal pull.
- The hitters mini dowel attaches to bungee at back of shaft around pp3

Also the angle of pulley on the swingers system can be moved to align with the turned shoulder plane to ensure an on plane pull.

Disclaimer :- Please be careful with rope...it is very close to your neck and golf can be a depressing game!!

dang, i almost feel like i should build one in my garage to sense the swingers pull!

Lag Loading With Golfbulldog
 

Great post, Golfbulldog. Lots to think about for both Swingers and Hitters.

Thanks!

Wonderful Pictures
 

golfbulldog,

I'm loving it! Could you mind doing another one for Hogan?:laughing9

Please do not take my silly machines too seriously! I am between jobs at the moment...weather has been poor, too much time on my hands! These are my versions of Leonardo's drawings...designs for helicopters that have not actually been built...and who knows if they would actualy work but they provide my brain with feels for pulling and pushing...

Awesome machines...
 

golfbulldog,

I did the "pull" during lunch hour and i was thinking of the variable weight at 10 pounds at the other end....I pulled the handle with the feeling of slow, strong and heavy.....!!! One of my friend at range showed me with this :eyes: look and I :laughing1 Crazy long....

Small payback to you for all your videos!!:salut: Thanks KOC.

:salut: :salut: :salut: Dinner for you when you are in HK or China.

Gse...
 

dang.....you guyz ever work? lol great stuff once again

Thanks KOC,
This sounds too good to be true ! Anyone have any experience of it?

ive been working on the pulleys pull image in my mock swings, it is odd when one imagines he is pulling down a 20 pound weight how from the top you can almost feel the resistance, the power of the brain i guess. Ive tried this before but the feel is much different when you imagine it on pulleys and not just whirling a weighted head.

very cool...the feel from release to follow-through is kinda whippy if that makes any sense. The noodle is workin this mo!

Secret revealed
 

Finally the "Secret" is revealed, for the "Loading" and initial "Sustaining" parts. Close enough to the overall picture.

The "Sustaining" through impact is what it is all about.

Good Job!

Lately, i read almost all information of Mr. Hogan as far as i can reach, 25 books with his name inside, video and DVD, and i paid attention on his ZONE #1 such as keeping the right knee angle and trace the ball; pivot around the left leg; hip slide before start down...etc

When i went to range, my shots became left, left, left right, left and even shannnnnk :crybaby:

I knew that there is something wrong in such a way of practice. One night after a tricycle accident to my leg (my son crashed to me), i laid down and started to think...If Homer really did take huge amount of Hogan's swing as reference in writing the book, why Homer focused on monitoring HAND instead of PIVOT?

Ben Hogan wrote over 30 pages regarding the GRIP in 5 lessons and he said he wish to have 3 right hands; he said his secret to Life Magazine was his cupped left wrist (with the change of his way to grip), all related to ZONE #3.

With golfbulldog’s pictures, it was a wake up factor! I drew, though very bad, these 3 pictures below and with reference to Denis Pugh recommended so-called “Butterfly Grip”, helped me hitting solid shot after shot – power fade.





The image was awesome! When I pull slowly, the body pivot in response moving slower, when I pull hard, the left hip cleared out of the way for my PULL. It works for me very well and I hope my search is ended.

THX Richard!

KOC, could you explain further what these pics represent? and explain the difference compared to bulldogs pics, what link did you find between his pics and what you drew here? thanx

also, what do you mean by "butterfly grip"?

Looking forward to it some day KOC! :golf: Thanks!

I have had a quick go about 3 years ago - it allows a sense of lag loading but is too rigid to feel the sense that YOU have to aim that lag.... the machine forces a movemement to abide by its own hinges...and so you feel lag pressure but no active sense of direction.

That"s exactly what I suspected bulldog !. Thanks for your reply -I was thinking that this was a revolutionary device . Seems like I was believing the HYPE.

Thanks again:salut:

heres a little Hogan love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Uv3fISjUU

enjoy

Nice pictures, KOC. It really helps capture the concept.

Anybody notice the ball position in KOC's picture? I am assuming this was a practice swing, since Hogan always played the ball a half-inch to inch off his left heel, and the ball is way in front of low point in the picture.

I think the camera is positioned way to his right -it is not a face-on shot.

Good post BullDawg! I like it . . .

Go to the top . . . stop . . . start down with your pivot and try to BOUNCE the shaft off of your right shoulder . . . you can get that Hogan look.

Check the perspective...
 

Oh Multi-pieced bucket,

Mr. Hogan's club would NEVER bounce on his right shoulder, but instead well outside it. Don't be deceived by face on views. His hinge action and his right foot action are interesting as well!!!


EC

Who's ec?:happy3:



todd

Really . . . I thought he was in a Turkish prison or something???

Up from the grave he aroooooooose!!!!

Nice to see him back, must be getting cold in carolina!!!



todd

Not as cold as the Cats' record. Good luck to your 'Boys tonight!

EC

When I first started using this image I used what felt like a straight line delivery path, meticulous attention to balance and PP3 sensation. The result was (i think - not yet on video) a TSP (turned shoulder plane) non-shifting downswing. There did not seem to be much hip slide, but there was some.

Reviewing this image, I tinkered with moving my hands along different delivery paths, focusing on :-

- maintaining the sense of drag that weight places on the clubhead
- the delivery path of the hands
- remaining in balance

On attempting the 10-23-B delivery path:-

10-23-B. ANGLED LINE
This pattern is used with the Plane Angle Variations that include a shift to (or back to) the Elbow Plane Angle during the Downstroke (10-7).

From the Top-of-the-Straight-Line hand position the Hands take a nearly vertical path to the Plane of the Elbow Plane Angle before they start their drive directly at and through the Aiming Point (2-J-3).

Just by moving my hands vertically down and thinking about nothing else but balance (moving yet staying in balance) the hips slid alot more...the hip slide is a balance driven response to the body doing "essentials" and "imperatives" whilst i consciously move my hands.

Hand-movement controlled pivot.

OK - so i have only done this in slow motion but it does seem to give automatic lower body motion at that speed. But it is balance that drives it.

Try and move your hands vertically down (yet on plane) and consciously DO NOT move your lower body... feels really unbalanced.... you can do it and the sceptics are correct in saying that mere movement of the hands does not force the pivot to move....

...so go back and move your hands in the same manner but let your body "do balance"...and the hips HAVE TO slide.... so mere hand movement in the context of the essentials ( and that includes balance...moving whatever it is allowed to move to stay in balance...the constraints of the essentials means that you have programmed it to move the head as little as possible...so it moves something else....pivot)

So it seems to me...

Remember this is the LAB section so please do not take this as the truth...just things to tinker with... a few ideas form the incubator that need airing...see what others say... Thanks for reading...sorry if i wasted your time! :laughing9

Dawg you are ON FIRE . . . what you are showing/demoing/doing is accelerating the club "lenghtwise" . . . LONGITUDINAL ACCELERATION . . . these images are VERY good. The whole body (Massive Rotor) is PULLING the DEAD WEIGHT INERTIA of the SWEETSPOT . . . LONGITUDINAL CENTER OF GRAVITY . . .

VERY NICE WORK.

Thanks Bucket - what has really surprised me was how central balance is to hands controlling pivot - but only when the hands can sense lag and the brain knows where that lag is being aimed...

I was surprised that angled delivery path is reproducible using 2 aiming points...one for the plane shift ( hands drop vertically but on plane) and then one ( the normal one ) towards the ball.... but the surprise came from the pivot seeming to respond to the "force assignment" that the hands command...

... and it seems like it is balance that does the work... it listens to the "force assignment" being delivered by the hands....fits it into its on-going task of balance +steady head etc.... and then tells your pivot what it need to do ...all without having to think about it....

Your first move, dragging the butt of the club down to the ground, I believe is what is referred to as taking the arrow from the quiver per 10-19-C.

The hip slide caused by pulling the hands down seems to be the equivalent of what Tom Tomasello talks about on his tapes when he says, from the top fo the swing, you sould reconnect the right elbow to the right hip. Tomasello says that the movement will automatically cause the hip to bump out or slide (I'm paraphrasing).

Anyway, please keep posting your thoughts in the lab, this is a great thread.

long...sorry...beware rambling!!!
 

Thanks Finster, yes it is an arrow from quiver style motion i think...The picture of Sam Snead with pulleys is DRAG LOADING image...dead right 10-19-C...longitudinal acceleration...pulling....from shoulder high ( "TOP" position) the hands can move in a number of directions (delivery paths)...the one that feels most like a "arrow from a quiver" - at least to my feel - is the angled line delivery path. The hands go almost vertically down but the butt , initially, points away from target...then the hands go in astraight line to the ball and the butt starts to point much more down at the plane line.


Whilst I have seen the Tomasello videos I had never really believed that hand motion caused pivot motion... just on its own....after all, the video shows the hips move before the hands...

So i never really bought that story....

but what i really feel is that it is balance that joins the two together.... hence the rants about HCP ( hand controlled pivot), balance and these pulleys and bungees!!:laughing9

But since i have started thinking about balance i can see how it works...at least for me.

Give the brain 2 tasks...one is to fight to maintain balance...other is to move the hands with lag sensation in a specific direction ( as per delivery path or aiming point)..... lag pressure is thrust and direction!

....you can only drag a heavy lag sensation using the bigger body muscles...so the pivot muscle is still moving the hands ( just as the slow motion video of Tommy transition shows ) ...but it is the requirement to stay balanced ( when a known lag force is being directed in a certain direction) that cause this.

....the brain is programed in advance to do both things ....so it does both things together... You can move your hands and club from transition with just arm motion...no pivot...but there will be instability...in fact the only way you can do this is over-power your own perfect, innate sense of balance with a program of your own making...usually based on a flawed idea of how the clubface has to strike the ball! BUT...

The body is so well hard-wired to maintain stability in the light of varying forces, that , if we let it and "keep out of its way" it will do it all for us!

.... if we examine the task in hand...break it down .....learn what the "force assignment" is...then get the body to recognize and enter this force into the "balance equation" , an equation that it solves in milliseconds on a continuous basis... then just use balance to get the job done!

The pictures of Snead and Ted were my way of visualising and experiencing the specific "force assignment" - pull and push - give your brain a few seconds to work out the most efficient way for your body to apply each force and the body positions ( especially right forearm position/alignment) will be an automatic choice ...see Yoda in "PP3 where are you" video... you can't push DOWN with an elbow that is pointing down like Tiger!! If somebody told you to play the game of "PUSHING DOWN" you would soon realise this.... but sadly we are told to play the game of golf and nobody , until Homer, realised that golf is G.O.L.F ( called either "PULLING DOWN " or "PUSHING DOWN":laughing9 )

Homer broke golf down into G.O.L.F....linear force with alignment of geometry....genius!

Yoda pasionately advocating the dowel drills fell on my slightly deaf ears for best part of 2 years..."my bad" as you guys in US say , i think!....

Now, if i imagine and really feel the force ( in slo-mo I really can hallucinate the heavy sensation that I would experience in the Snead image) and with that sensation I have got something to aim...and NOW the dowels make sense....I just needed force and alignment to make it work for my brain! And i really feel my feet now..even on a 6 foot chip shot... even with an invisible club and a 6 foot chip shot!!:laughing9

Now i have either gone completely mad or I have just changed my name to Paul and walked past a sign that read " Damascus" :laughing9

Hallucinations, hitting 6 foot chips with invisible clubs, feeling your feet for the first time, I'm afraid you have lost your mind, BUT, you may have found your golf game!

Powerdraw, eternally grateful....thanks for this!

Bulldog....great stuff. Your insights to your awarenesses are are only surpassed by the inspiration you are giving. Thanks so much!

spike, you are quite welcome!