Right Forearm Pick Up?
 

Could someone please help me with the right forearm pick up. When do you start to pick it up?

Should you fan the right forearm and then pick it up?

I would like to understand this some more!

Nathan

Have you watched the David Orr video about the right forearm takeaway? It will help you to better understand what is really happening.
In my own experience, The fanning starts first, while tracing the plane line. The up back and in parts naturally happens due to extensor action and the check rein of the left arm. It's just a fanning and cocking of the right elbow.

The Tomasello videos in the Gallery section are an excellent place to learn the RFT.

The Right Forearm Take- Away, Homer called it the Right Forearm Pick Up and freaked out the golfing world. It is the only Hands Controlled Take-Away. You are setting up at address for a certain point through the ball and the RFT allows for this on the Down Stroke.

The RFT goes Back Up and In, as Homer says, “Up and Back, Simultaneously and Immediately.” Back Up and In is the Incline Plane. Some say it can be a Fanning motion or a one hand clapping motion, as long as it is on the Incline Plane- Back, Up and In. This motion will, of course, fold the right elbow, raise the left arm and cock the left wrist. The 7-3 Magic.

Snap the left wrist flat with Extensor Action and you got the makings of great stroke.

My right arm moves to low and around my body. My left arm moves across my chest to much and my shaft gets below the plane. For the last few months my miss has been a pull.

Yesterday I flet like I just picked my right forearm straight up and I actually started some balls out to the right. I don't get it.

So is just picking the right forearm straight up, NOT the right forearm pickup?

Is this the same move as moving the right elbow back up and in, like Hardy is teaching? I don't think this is what you mean, I would just like to understand better.

No- NOT like Hardy. Forget position golf. The RFT is about the Hands fanning up and back on the Incline Plane. The hardest thing about teaching the RFT is that is so simple. Pick the Hands up the inclined plane.

Watch the video I made for David Orr. Although he is explaining the motion with Bio-Mechanics terminology- it is the Right FOREARM, moved by the Hands, which turns the right shoulder to the Top of the Stroke. Forget about Elbow Position. The Load and Left Wrist Action will set that ALIGNMENT. Allow the Hands to travel on the Incline Plane and they will move Back and Up naturally.

6bmike,

Very cool. RFT makes sense now. More of a reaction to the hands and extensor action than a pulling feeling?

RFT was really simple concept when Yoda explained it to me.
Basically put your left arm out in front of you (standing upright) and then with you right hand hold your left wrist (making sure you have your left wrist in FLV alignments) and the lift up your left arm with your right arm. That is the right forearm pickup really.
Now repeat the same motion but in a golf like posture. Pretty easy right?
Alex

This is the exact same way that Yoda explained it to me...just like in the Tomasello video. Amazing how a lesson with the little green genius makes things so simple!

E.

Is the David Orr video still in the gallery? I can't seem to find it.

Dave

Word by 6bmike / bold by me

Mike - fanning on the plane suddenly made alot more sense! A different motion to what i had previously envisaged which was fanning in relation to horizontal plane rather than the inclined plane - but now i see the up and in component more readily... is this correct? I always see claping hands as horizontal to ground... now on plane(inclined) clapping makes more sense! Thanks

PS . If Homer saw Freddy Couples doing this... why does Feddy do it off plane in take away?? Also do you agree that RFT requires good pivot to make it work properly - even to the point of training the pivot first?

It was the simplicity that was so tough to teach.

And KEY to the RFT is the Stationary Head. Without it, you might as well just go Low and Slow and relocate the Plane when at the top.

Even though the clapping motion will “seem” like a pure horizontal movement, it isn’t. You are in an address angle- the hands do move up and back even if you just ‘feel’ back.

My RFT could easily feel like a big fan to the right with a folding right elbow raising the left arm but looked at from the back view, you would see the right forearm move up and back, simultaneously.

Ben Doyle told us that Freddie was the inspiration for the right forearm take-away. Maybe not the carbon copy for it.

You can easily train the take-away side of the Pivot with the RFT because the Hands are actually moving the body with a delayed Hip Action. Perfection! Down Stroke- got to train that side from the bottom up

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery...ry.php?cat=517

Under Lynn Blake in the Gallery. David does a nice job looking at the RFT from a different perspective that really shines light on the motion.

What is the difference between “position golf” and the positions that Homer advocates for study and practice for example:
The relations of all Machine positions and motion can be described by a geometric figure. (1-L-21)
In 2-D-1. MAJOR DIRECTIONAL FACTORS he includes:
Power Package Component Position
Pivot Component Position
Address Position Impact

“Take advantage of the fact that the Hands are better at moving into a position than at holding a position “(3-B)

Chapter 4 is titled Wrist Positions and therein he advises ‘practice all Wrist positions and motions….’

In 6-A-4. he speaks of the “normal” position of the Arms. “Fix positions” in 6-B 2-0 and “Right Forearm Position at the Top” (7-3)

Finally, in 8-0 “This twelve Section arrangement presents a chain of Basic Positions and Motions through which every Stroke must pass.
How do all these positions differ from ‘position golf’?

Homer was against "fixed' position golf. These are positions that you sculpted yourself into vs. positions you obtain through alignments.

Check out the “PP3 where are you?” video clip. Lynn talks briefly about the difference between position golf and alignment golf.

Motion can't accommodate a fixed position. Motion allows positions from alignments to flow through and be 'golf-like.'

6bmike,

alignment golf is what I am trying to achieve. I am just trying to get a better understanding of the motion, so I can preform it correctly.

Thanks for all the great replies.

I get it now!

It is easy to use the word "position" when learning. Chapter Eight is position-like, so is Impact Fix but what is important is how the position was achieved. Did you go out of alignments to achieve a look? Or did the alignments produce them. Trust alignments.

Not trying to get weird here but would like to know how this sounds to you guys.....

The left hand turns and the right wrist bends, the right forearem rotates and the right elbow bends.

Extensor action (as I feel it) maintains the alignments, balance and flow.

If this is a correct sequence then......I was thinking that the words describing the movement of the clubhead would be.....

In/back (much like down/out is used for the downswing), up and behind.

In/back, up and behind. It makes for a nice compact backswing.

Is this too crazy? Is there a flaw in this pattern?

Backward ,upward and inward-INSTANTLY and SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Extensor action is constant all the way from address to finish.
I would not call it a sequence.Remember to ensure the club should always point at the plane line -extended to the horizon until it reaches parallel to the plane line.
So no, doesn't sound too crazy to me ,....".nice compact backswing " sounds highly desirable:)

Thanks for that neil.

Had a student the other day who, when trying to do a takeaway with "back" as the first move, his right arm would separate from his chest and couldn't load his wrist very well. So, I changed the wording to in/back to where he would then turn his left hand as the first move. This bent his right hand and kept his arm connected.

Thought is was interesting how words in a different order could make such a great difference. Kinda fun.

When On-Plane on the Incline Plane, Up and Back are the same direction. Add a pivot and IN is also in the same direction.

On Plane with Two Force Vectors
 

Per the Magic of the Right Forearm......7-3....Futhermore, in compliance with 6-B-3-0-1, Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist with Bending, Flattening or Cocking the Right Wrist. Practice this first at Impact Fix.

Tomasello interview......Golf Illustrated July 1991.

Tomasello: Here we get into the terminology that scares people. You swing the club via two "divergent force vectors". This simply means that two different forces are being combined. One force is moving the club upward and downward. A second force is moving the club outward, away from you.

The upward and downward force is provided by a straight-up folding and unfolding of the right forearm from its address position. You simply fold your right arm at the elbow to swing the club up. From there, you try to throw the clubhead into the ground by unfolding your right arm. The outward or horizontal force force comes from the pivoting of the hips to the right rear on the backswing and the left rear on the downswing. This horizontal force throws the clubhead out away from you, on a horizontal plane.

On the downswing, when you combine these two "divergent force vectors," the result is the movement of the club on the correct plane.

When I followed Homer and Tom Tomasello's recommendations to a T....I got extensor action for free. :) Then you begin to understand the Magic of the Right Forearm...if you haven't already. Zach Johnson does.

Also, when executing the Magic of the Right Forearm.....keep your mind in your hands and keep your hands on the Straight Line Delivery Path.....10-23-A for Hitting and 10-23-C for Swinging. Then monitor your right hip per 12-3-0-24. Execute this few concepts correctly and you're on your way to a very consistent backstroke and a full swing or hitting procedure. I guarantee it.

DG

Too simple, 6b, thank you.

DG,

I believe it! Thanks for the insight. It must have been awesome to spend time with HK and TT.

I also want to say thanks to everyone, as it is much easier for me to understand the references given with your personal input on how to understand it.

Thank you all,
spike

Had an individual three day school with Tomasello and talked on the phone with Tommy....the reference to HK is through the text. Some doubt that Tommy taught from the book....I see it the other way.....I believe Tommy did not deviate from the book at all.

GI interview....

GI: And you were able to assimilate all of this?

Tomasello: Learning the principles took time. I knew that Homer's information was what I was looking for; truthfully, after those sessions it was still over my head. Eventually, though, I learned both the movements and how to communicate them.

Learned those movements and how to communicate them from Homer Kelley.

DG

Let me ask you guys something about this thread.....Right Forearm Pick Up.

The word "Pick Up" sounds like a pulling action designed to lift.

I may be way off here but that seems to me (pulling up or picking up) a detrimental thought/action.

Shouldn't extensor action be more of a pushing action with the hands that if properly done will cause the right elbow to bend.?

I find that when i turn the left hand and "push" down or against the turned left hand in the takeaway, along with a leading right hip turn, that not only do the hands stay more centered to the body but the right elbow bends (up) as a natural bio-mechanical reaction.

So, he said, as he stepped out on that finger lickin' greasy limb....don't you think it should have been called a Bent Right Hand Forearm Push Up?

It's called standard hip action....if executed per a true standard hip action it will produce a "Top Arc and Angled Delivery Path"....your choice. Tends to be more of a Ballard/Leadbetter move....

DG

Homer called it a pick up becasue you pick the club up on plane. It is really that simple.
Extensor Action does not pick up the club or move the left arm in any way. Extensor Action gives structure to the left arm so the stroke doesn't fall apart. It straightens the left arm and can feel like a pushing down to straighten the left arm or can feel like a pulling or tugging on the left arm. It stretches never moves.

I feel a tug or pulling on my left arm but the right arm picks up the club and left arm- not Extensor Action.

Thanks 6bmike, I get it and appreciate your clarifications. Words are sometimes a tough way to communicate, unless all agree on the same definition.

I really like what I'm learning here!

right forearm pickup
 

Spike

What the guys are saying is swing up the incline which is to swing on plane. I found the best way to feel this is to purchase a laser trainer like butch harmons and trace the target line. You will immediately get the feeling that you are just lifting the club up with your right forearm. If you let your body react your pivot will naturally happen. you should learn what pivot controlled hands mean as well.

Dave

Thanks Dave,

I agree with ya totally!

At the risk sounding too full of myself, I'd have to say I have really educated hands. Been spending the last 13 years dealing with just that, and the biomechanics that go with it. Although, my anatomical terminology sucks! Along with my TGM terminology.:redface:

I think that an educated pivot can move educated hands....I also think educated hands can move an educated pivot.

Thanks to all for being patient with me!

From David Orrs demonstration of RFT I get the impression that his backstroke becomes rather flat with fanning of the right arm dominating and very little lifting. I mean, is it possible to get an effective "down" move with so little lifting? Or am I out on a bicycle?

It is not a real take-away but a demostration in front of a class as he explained the RFT in bio-mechanics terms.
But notice that his fanning is not horizontal and parallel to the ground but On Plane- which is Back AND Up.
Homer called the RFT, the Right Forearm PICK UP. You pick it up On Plane- and whichever Plane you want.

Up and Down with Magic
 

The right forearm motion is up and down per 7-3. Two thirds of the way down the 2nd paragraph...."The On Plane Right Forearm shows the precise up-and-down direction it and the clubshaft must take throughout the Stroke (2-J-3)." During the fanning motion of the right forearm in the basic stroke.....the right forearm is actually going up, the pivot is creating a horizontal motion, especially the shoulders.

During my three school with Tomasello out on the driving range....he really emphasized the action of the right arm as being up and down.

See Tomasello's Letter #1 video.

DG