Am I a messed up swinger???
 

I read on this board that swingers are left arm dominant (#2 and #4pp for power), and hitters use their right tricep and #3PP for power. Is this correct? If so, what do I need to use to trace the plane line? I have been using #3pp (right forefinger), but this is for hitting, no??

If true about swingers using left arm, then what do I do (if anything) with my right arm, besides the BRW?

Swingers are not left arm dominant, they are pivot dominant. As a swinger my right arm is never really passive. I feel extensor action all the way through to the finish which provides tremendous structure. My right arm is extremely important in my golf swing, it is just not activating the accumulators. Remember, the left arm is basically inert and has to be moved by the bending of the right arm and/or rotating torso. Your right forearm and #3 pp are used for plane line tracing.

Thanks,

I am not off as far as I thought then.

As a Swinger you must get your mellon soaked up in this here . . .

6-C-2-A THE ESSENCE of Clubhead Lag technique is that it is always both Aiming AND Thrust. Passive – it is primarily Aiming the Lag Pressure. Active – it is the primarily Thrusting the Lag Pressure Point. The Orbiting Clubhead does not seek out the Ball – it seeks out the Delivery Line. But never directly – only via the Right Forearm and the #3 Pressure Point per 2-F, 5-0 and 7-3. It is guided along that Line to the Both Arms Straight configuration by the straight line thrust of the #3 Pressure Point toward the Angle of Approach quadrant of the Ball – or Aiming Point – per 1-F, 1-L-9/10, 2-J-3 and 6-E-2.

I would add the #2 is also extremely important in the "aiming" of lag for the swinger. The initial move is to drag the butt of the club DOWN the PLANE toward the Plane Line. This is how the orbit of the club is initially established. Your body is MASSIVE relative to the arms and the club and it is also responsible for the ORBIT. This orbit is of HUGE importance. The hands direct the orbit but OFFPLANE SHOULDER MOTION CAN DISRUPT IT and thereby disrupt all the motion.

The plane is BOSS. The ORBIT is TWO DIMENSIONAL on the flat surface of that plane. CF wants to align your arms with the motion of the shoulders which are massive in comparison. Your right shoulder must go downplane as directed by dragging the butt of the club DOWN THE PLANE . . . the tilting of the shoulder axis is MISSION CRITICAL to getting the orbit right at Start Down. If you roundhouse, you have just made the orbit 3-dimensional.

See the Glossary on Axis Tilt. The example is a helicopter tilt the axis of rotation of its blades to move up down or turn. Your arms and the club are the "blades" of your chopper . . . shoulders are the rotor or axel or axis or whatever the hell it is . . . you gotta tilt the axis to get the blades to start down plane. Then you continue that motion by directing the lag felt on #3 all the way DOWN OUT AND THROUGH YOUR AIMING POINT.

AIM POINT 6-E-2.

I took lessons from a man who was NOT a TGM degree holder, but taught out of the book.

I cut the ball all of my life. He had me place a tee where I would normally tee the ball. Then he would put a ball on a tee about 6-8" in front of the tee. He had me aim at the tee in front of me while hitting the ball, all while hitting downoutthrough. The ball flew straight or drew. Is this what 6-E-2 is describing?

100% correct! Some folks confuse aiming point with low point . . . kind of like a bunker shot where you look at the sand and HAVE THE CLUB STRIKE THE SAND AT THAT POINT. Aiming Point as you have seen demonstrated is about directing THRUST . . . not the Destination of the Clubhead. 6-E-2 is one of the best contributions of Mr. Kelley to golf. With the aiming point procedure you can have the Aiming Point be CONSTANT and move the ball to have the same release feel . . . OR you can keep your ball position constant and move the Aiming Point forward, aft, or at the ball.

Mr. Kelley in the 4th edition had a particularly lucid example of Aiming Point being like the free hand drawing of straight lines on a chalk board. You place your chalk on point A, look at point B and draw the line. By looking at the chalk you'd screw the pooch. So with aiming point from the top . . . you are mentally constructing a straight line of thrust from top down and THROUGH the Aiming Point via your #3 Pressure Point . . . . that pressure point is your chalk, the starting point is Top, the straight line is the extension of the Straight Line Delivery Path of your hands (and lag pressure) and the destination is down and through the aiming point which is on your Delivery Line.

Great stuff, and much appreciated. So in theory (to me anyway), I should move my aiming point closer, further from me to correct any over the top move that I have?

That is an interesting question . . . Potentially YES. But this may not "fix" you. The hands are certianly the comand post of the swing and dictate to the pivot . . . BUT only to a certain extent. Faulty shoulder motion can SCREW UP the most educated set of hands. But give it a shot.

Make your delivery line the Angle of Approach . . . simply a line "out to right field" and place your aiming point on that line and see what results. Could work . . .

But you may have to actually focus on your pivot to correct it and then go back to the hands. Do some searches on roundhousing and axis tilt.

Yeah, I believe that "Flat shoulder trun" may very well be my problem.

1 more thing for today. Why on earth would my practice swing be an in-to-out plane line, but when you put a ball out there, I get the over the top bent plane???

This may happen if your first move back from the ball is over plane due to an 'over turn' or over swivel. Even though the hands/shaft appear to be coming inside, the fact that the over turn/swivel has occured means you need to compensate with an 'over the top' roundhouse move, or you may hit a big push or even a hosel rocket.

Try using a waggle similar to Stuart Appleby to get the feel for hands staying 'inside' the clubhead until hip high. Split grip drills can help too. This is part of what folks are trying to get across with the image of the club staying 'out in front' of you.

To add to bucket's previous posts on this.....

keep in mind that the hands (pressure points) should retain their relationship to the plane line, not to the body.

I like this! Could you expand on this here thought?

Sure thing Bucket..... we are at the root of Homer's work on this in some ways:

G.O.L.F.

Geometrically Oriented Linear Force

The idea being we are trying to sustain the line of compression, a line of force, that is properly aligned to the result we want. To do that, we are using our hands, specifically the pressure points, to send that force via the club, so it stands to reason that if we want to direct the force, we want to direct our hands.

Where do we want to direct them? On plane - down plane.

Now obviously the rest of the body, the rest of the 'machine', has a relationship to the hands, and to be truly efficient, all the other parts have to align in their respective relationships - but that said -

It is the line of compression that matters, and to that goal, ultimately it is the hands that we can control - so if the rest of the body is all over the place, we can still sustain the line of compression if the hands know where to go - on plane, down plane.

The rest of the body may do all kinds of things to support, or fight, or compensate, but those pressure points are the 'end of the chain'.

If the hands try to stay related to the body, rather than the plane line, you're in trouble unless you have perfect body/pivot motions.

"Sustain" the lag by Pulling.
 

for "swinging", as well.
Pull with the left arm or help the left arm "sustain the lag/resist the resistance" by the way of pulling.

Good stuff! I think hitting down is a misnomer (sp?). You have used precision language the club hits down ON PLANE.

I think it is very difficult to trust your hands in Swinging because you are feeling the club SLING out hopefully down on plane. There is more LET in Swinging compared to MAKE in Hitting. There are many seeming contradictory principles in Swinging e.g. quick startdown.

I think the startdown is quick but only in the relative sense to the Hitter. It is quick because the Swinger reaches his top handspeed necessarily quicker than the Hitter do to the nature of acceleration required and momentum transfer. That being said the motion is still STRONG DELIBERATE AND HEAVY.

Another difficult thing to get and execute in Swinging is what you have done a great job with here . . . AIMING the Lag Pressure. The pivot and the massive rotor is doing the work but as you have so precisely pointed out the HANDS AIM the forces down on-plane toward the Delivery Line. And with the right hand palm up to the plane this is a total different sensation than the hitter with his non-rotated #3 pressure point and hands vertical to the plane via Single Wrist Action.

Your description above is a fabulous answer to the typical question of how is the Swinger using Hands Controlled Pivot???

Great Post!

Follow up question . . . Do you also relate the hands to the Plane Angle or Deliver Path as well as the Plane Line?

Absolutely - the hands are part of the definition of THE plane and are therefore intimately tied to plane angle and plane line, and to the extent they are attached, the right forearm and elbow relationship to the delivery path.

All tie back to grip type, which in very large part help define what the compatible components will be for that player's overall motion.