Hitters Pilgrimage to 5000 Chips (long post)
 

On am committed to hitting 5000 chips this winter. (NY) I had originally imagined that I would see steady progress throughout my practice sessions. But, appearing at irregular intervals are chips leaving the ball signifcantly to the right. Amazingly after hitting 20 successful chips in a row, hitting one bad chip is usually followed by another 3 or 4 bad ones, before I am able to begin another run of more accurate chips. To solve this problem I continue to study The Gallery for ideas on how to refine my chipping stroke. I have to be selective, because alot of the material is meant for swingers, not hitters. Through my first 4,000 chips, improvements come in fits and starts, and inaccurate chips always seem just around the corner. I had expected that by now I would be able to hit most chips consistently close to my target, (a bucket) situated 50 to 60 feet away. But it hasn't happened.

The original ideas that I started with was Ted Fort's backswing and zero pivot chip swing. I practiced his backswing by imitating his holding his left wrist with my right hand. I also tried to get the feel of his piston like forward swing. Further, I tried to incorporate his other suggestions such as concentrating on hitting out to right field (his occassional waggle) and watching my hands, and watching the club hitting through the ball. But unfortunately my consistency did not seem to improve as much as I had hoped. I even added Yoda's suggestion of hitting the balls with my pressure points. During this time period, my record of what I considered satisfactory chips (maybe 12 feet from the bucket) was somewhere around from 25 in row.

I then figured out that I was wasn't consistently hitting the turf, (mat) past the ball. Based on Ben's video of the student in the sand trap, found a mat with a straight line across it. I placed the ball behind that line and concentrated on hitting down through the ball onto that line. Progress seemed to improve after I adopted this practice. I also discovered a Yoda video in which he talked about students not focusing on hitting the ball with the clubhead, but rather focusing on hitting the ball with the presure points in the hands. Finally I tried adopting the idea that I should hit the ball with the whole forearm. The result of combining practice on these ideas was a new record of 40 satisfactory chips in a row. But even this progress didn't avoid my occassionally hitting balls off line to the right.

In another of Ben's tapes, I saw him teach a student to insure the elbow moves foward down below the belly and close to left leg. I remembered watching in slow motion the swings in the long drive contest between Yoda and Ted Fort and noticing how after their elbows dropped down, the elbows began to steadily move forward. That wasn't happening in my swing. In general when my ball path was off line, I found my arms extending inside of where I thought they should be. Even though I knew Ben was teaching a "swinging" student, I thought that this idea had promise and I was running out of time. The immediate result this morning was a string of 100 satisfactory chips in a row. Also the quality of the chips was alot higher than previously as a much higher precentage were relatively easy one putts. I then tried hitting 1 handed swings employing the same principles of moving the right elbow further forward and actually had much greater success than usual in this endeavor. The quality of my full swing with my sand wedge, the only club I allow myself to bring to the range, was also better than before. Hopefully I am finally on to something.... Any further suggestions from skilled chippers?

Putt with lag and loft.
 

To me, it's just a downward putt with lag and more loft.

Not a veteran but... Is your ball going right because of the Hinge, or because the ball is getting on the hosel?

It's hard to tell what the thought would be, to get your hands in your head. I chip from Square-Open stance, single action strong, and use a Push action. From there i use an Angled or Vertical Hinge depending upon what I want to do with the ball.

If my chip is off line, invaribly it is because i fouled the plane by an improper right forearm trace. Discounting throwaways, if I chunk or thin the ball, it was because of failed extensor action. Extensor action ensures a full radius, and pulls the upper body appropriately to Top in the full swing. In the chip, it assures my left arm is "measured" (fully extended) so I return exactly to ball, then lowpoint.

I just Push the dragging "wet mop" with PP1, feeling the pressure back into PP3. Getting the clubhead and clubface out of your head, and your assembled right and left hand into your head is very important. I have a whacky nighttime exercise in which you have to depend on your hands because you can't see the clubhead. :)

At least that is the way it has worked for me. YMMV. :)

Is your ball going right because of the Hinge, or because the ball is getting on the hosel?

Based on the improved success I have had once I began concentrating on moving the right elbow down and forward, it appears I wasn't getting insufficient forward extension. Plus while I try to hit to both arms extended, on bad chips, my extended arms were not pointing out as I desired, but finished pointing too far left. Looks like I was swinging outside in too much or perhaps your suggestion of a bad forearm trace. I think I might have been running out of right arm, because my right elbow was stuck back at my side.

I must admit that I haven't actually thought extensively about extensor through the chip as you have suggested and I should focus on that more going forward. I really like the downswing waggle for acquired and full swing motions as a means of getting the right shoulder closer so the right forearm can drive further through the ball. But because the foreward hip movement doesn't take place in a zero pivot chip, the right shoulder doesn't drop and my right elbow was stationed too far back. When I concentrated on the piston like arm straightening bringing the elbow foreward, I found a better way of insuring my right elbow ended up where it belonged.

Today I reached 4600 chips, pretty close to the end of my journey. I had another day of favorable performance. When I hit acquired motion. right arm swings and full motion shots concentrating on feeling my right elbow under my belly, I liked the results better than my swing before I went on this chipping journey. With my remaining 400 chips, I will indeed work on what you have suggested, both the left hand extensor action and pushing the dragging wet mop with PP1, feeling the pressure back into PP3. I already really like concentrating on where the hands end up and not worrying as much about the clubface. Thanks for your suggestions and help.

I undertook the challenge of hitting 5000 chips, not because my chipping was so bad. I did it because if I could perfect my basic motion swing, indirectly I hoped my acquired motion and full motion swings would also likely be improved in the process. I was impressed that a number of pros practiced basic motion chips regularly, and sometimes didn't begin full swing practice without starting with basic motion chips. Also why did Yoda when he decided to get back into golf start by hitting so many bags of chips? While treating the basic motion chip as a downward putt might well improve my chipping technique, I am after far bigger goals than than just improving my chipping.

hit down....
 

For me it's:
-hit down on the inside aft with the pp#3, and always resist the tendency to let the hit forward take over.
-always focus on the landing spot, to teach the pp#3 how much pressure is needed for different lenghts.
-change target, procedure, lie, sidespin, trajectory or hingeaction on all shots. Hit or swing, and go through your routine everytime.

....and this is true for chipping, pitching and full shots with anything from lobwedge to driver.

It is becoming clear to me that my 5,000 chip Pilgramage is not going to created the results that I had hoped for. While I have had a few encouraging days since my journey began, as I have experimented with other people's suggestions, some of the inconsistencies that I previously suffered have started returning. At the same time, the further changes have also improved the feel and accuracy of my new chip when things are going well.

I started out working hard to duplicate a backswing similar to what one achieves by grabbing ones left wrist with his right hand and then swinging back from there. In focusing on the feel of my new backswing, I tuned out the need for the right arm to also apply consistent extensor action. The more accurate measuring of extensor action does make for more accurate ball contact so it must be added. I also have been trying harder to get pp1 and pp3 to play more important roles in each chip. Finally, I am trying to focus more on tracing the delivery line to assure an in to out delivery path.

So, the 5,000 chip pilgramage needs an alternation. I am going to need 6 or even 7,000 chips to assure a chip that I can depend upon for the 2007 golf season. Thanks to both Thom and Theodan for sharing productive ideas to help perfect my swing mechanics. Also while chipping accuracy from my disciplined practice is a good start. When I allow myself a few full swings with sand wedge occasionally during practice, it is clear to me that I am favorable reshaping the mechanics of not just my basic swing but of my full swing as well. Thats what really has me excited.

This sounds similar to my golf pligrimage. I hope what helped me helps you. Here are the 2 big realizations I had:

Are you set up correct? Chipping is 95% setup. Once I set myself up right it became infinitely easier.

Lay down a dowel and trace along the dowel, straight back, straight through. Then duplicate the motion with a ball. You may find a new set of feelings. For example, I found going straight actually felt like pushing out. Once I realized this, my chipping took off.

Completing the task on time
 

Completed my 4800 chip in 30 degree weather this morning, I am so encouraged by todays results, that I now intend to complete my Pilgramage at 5,000 as originally planned. They call it basic motion, and I understand the premise, but in a way the name is misleading because imo doing a zero pivot chip properly is anything but a "basic" action. The ingredients currently fighting for my brains attention and focus as I make chips are as follows.

1) Piston action- Proper backswing and piston forward swing. Demonstrated by Ted Fort in his recent video with Yoda. This is probably the number one task I had to learn. I particularly am concentrating on getting my right elbow further forward (under my stomach) as a consequence of my piston action. (An important lesson that helped me in my struggle to hit consistently accurate chips.)

2) Extensor action- This has been a very helpful addition from Theodan. I certainly knew about extensor action and have used it in the past. Unfortunately, in trying to imitate the backswing arm action and forward action on the video, I failed to think about employing it in my chips and this was a mistake.

3) Hitting the ball with your pressure points (PP1 and PP3) and your hand position, rather than with the club face. PP1 is particularly helpful to me in making sure I ground my club face immediately after ball contact. Aside from the fact that I am consious that it trails PP1, I don't think I am getting full benefits from PP3 yet, but I will keep monitoring it as well hopefully to enhance my feel in how hard to hit the ball to a particular distance as suggested by Thom.

4) Delivery Line Tracing- This was suggested very ecently by SolarBear and it immediately paid dividends. Still working hard on making sure I incorporate the "out" along with the "down" and "forward".

I now fully understand why one needs 5,000 chips to properly learn the necessary technique. The mind starts focusing on one concept at a time and it take a hell of a lot of repetitions to get proper coordination of the 4 different disciplines combined into a proper chip. My next journey will be to hit 2500 acquired motion chips between now and April. As I reach the conclusion of the first leg of my off season training, I am particularly grateful to Yoda for continuously pointing me in the right golfing direction.

There were some old threads. You might find it interesting.
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ght=the+beauty

Pete09

Chipper's Trail End
 

Stay with it, rvwink. You're gainin' on it!

"Stay with it, rvwink. You're gainin' on it!"

You ain't kidding Yoda! Today was my best chipping day ever. Adding the combination of extensor action and much more meticulous tracing to my focus of using pp1 to ground the club after contact, and the continuingly improving piston action worked wonders. When Yoda talked about his chipping practice he talked about pole-ies. My chipping practice had as its reward barrel-ies in general. (When I hit 200 balls, I hoped to get 10 Barrel-ies as an example.) But today I was aiming for a flag about 63 yards away, and frequently ending up very close to the flag i.e. gimmie one putts. What made it tough was that the flag was at the top of the hill, and unless you were within 5 of the right distance, the ball would roll off either the front or back of the green.. Today my 3rd from last chip was a real live pole-ie. Made me smile.

I was hitting 100 balls today in about 29 degrees. I actually started getting bored because my chips were that consistent and that accurate and I felt that I had figured it out finally. So I started hitting a few acquired motion chips just to size up the journey that I had in front of me. I was astonished how improved my acquired motion chips became as a result of the progress I had made on my basic motion. The piston, extensor, tracing and focus on pressure points over clubfaces are all the same. I could be wrong but based on today's sample, it doesn't appear that I am going to need to spend anywhere near as much time on my acquired motion as I have invested in my basic motion.

I have finally figured out what problem I had that was causing me to hit the ball right. Unfortunately occassionally my piston package fires to the left instead of modestly to the right as it should. When it does that, two things happen. First, there is a tendency for my body to straighten up, and second as the result of the outside in action, I tend to leave the ball right. I don't think the problem is necessarily sloppy tracing. I need to really focus in the required feel on piston action that will eliminate the occasional outside in result. There was maybe 1 every 33 shots today, so not that big a deal any more. Sounds like if I concentrate on tracing a straight line and making sure my piston action continues on the straight delivery path, I should be able to beat this problem.

nice work...
 

Reading your last post, I came to think about when I changed to hitting, I was very focused on the pp#1.
I was actually thinking of hitting the inside aft of the ball with a downward punch with the pp#1.
When that became motorized (can you say that in english?) my focus changed to pp#3: aiming, tracing (for direction) and the amount of pressure, lag (for distancecontrol).

Stay with it, fog will be lifted, lightbulbs go off, fireworks light up the sky as you celebrate your turnament victorys and your new low handicap:laughing9 :eyes:

That's some long range basic motion....63 yards with 2 feet back to 2 feet forward:)

Right Forearm Chips
 

With those remaining 200 balls, I recommend using the right forearm to thrust the club with your chips....try 100 with an angled hinge action and 100 with horizontal hinging. Feel the magic of the right forearm....

DG

"I was actually thinking of hitting the inside aft of the ball with a downward punch with the pp#1. When that became motorized (can you say that in english?) my focus changed to pp#3: aiming, tracing (for direction) and the amount of pressure, lag (for distancecontrol)."

I like your choice of the word "motorized". When I have ingrained the pp1 downward thrust, I will indeed explore the joys of PP3 as well. Thanks for your help.

In my defense, I am chipping on the frozen tundra, actually astroturf, so I do get alot of roll. (In summer, on a course, maybe I was hitting 50 yard shots.) My goal in doing all of the chips was primarily to perfect my overall swing. (The improvement in my ability to chip was only a valuable by product of my journey). When I hit the acqured motion shots using about the same force, they were landing 65 yards or so in the air, and then begining to roll down the hill. Couldn't see where they ended up.

I only carry the sand wedge to the range. During my journey, I have allowed myself a few full motion shots perhaps as a reward for a nice run of chips. Since I began working on this, I do think my overall distance has increased nicely. Because I needed them to get the results I desired, I finally have given myself the benefit of alot of valuable ingredients that make the golfing machine work so well.

One of the things I tried pretty hard earlier on was employing the full right forearm in my chips. Unfortunately, my thrust package was uncertain, I wasn't concentrating on tracing sufficiently, and I wasn't employing extensor action. So while the magic of the right forearm is certainly powerful, it simply wasn't able to overcome my other signficant deficiencies.

Now that these other ingredients are in place, that is an excelllent idea which I will definitely put to work.

Actually perhaps the more accurate answer is that the closest consistent target accessible from different hitting stations was the barrels at 50 yards, next there were some flags at 63 yards. I specifically didn't want to just hit balls out there, without aiming at a specific target. My basic shot was forged to get me to the 50 yard targets. As I started making better contact, the upgrade to 63 yards didn't even require any extra effort.

Learning from 5,000 chips
 

It took my a really long time to figure out how to hit a chip properly. My initial error came from over focusing on the "magic of the right forearm", and under focusing on piston action. Because I wasn't using enough piston action, my elbow remained back too far. That caused me to run out of right arm. When I finally began concentrating on getting my elbow under my stomach, at around 4,000 chips, my execution improved signficantly. But rather than really solving the problem, I really was using a band aid to mask the faulty technique. The next day, I realized that the piston action would also deliver my elbow into a forward position and finally I was really making progress.
.
Incorporating "piston action" to get my elbow sufficiently forward definitely helped alot. I stopped working on "the magic of the right forearm" because the way I was incorrectly using it, it was part of the problem, not part of the solution. From 4,000 to 4800 chips, relative to my prior track record, my results were much improved. Thanks to members of this forum, I added extensor action, more meticulous tracing, pp1's efficiency for grounding the club past ball contact, along with my newly improved piston action. The use of the word thrusting by Delaware Golf made me realize how to take the final step. I tried incorporating the magic right forearm yesterday, but the "piston action", and "magic right forearm" were meshing yet. I finally realized today that a thrusting motion could efficiently combine piston action with the "magic right forearm". What a blast, to finally feel what a good chip should feel like.

Because it took so long for me to master basic motion, acquired motion chips got very little practic. Yet, when I tried acquired motion chips today, that swing also felt dramatically improved. With 15 balls left, I hit about 10 excellent full motion sand wedge shots. All of them were on line, with good distance. Even though I haven't practiced that swing in a long time, they felt much better than my prior swing going through the ball. It may have looked like I was practicing chipping, but instead, I have really been perfecting my swing through the ball. There is no question in my mind, but that the benefits of my recently concluded journey, will improve my scoring in the 2007 season. Now that I finally understand how to properly employ the "magic of the right forearm", 2007 is very likely to be my most productive golf year yet. If you are caught in the golfing doldrums, not making as much progress as you desire, give massive amounts of "basic motion" a try.