Centrifugal Force Swingers
 

Can/should... Pure Centrifugal Force Swingers DRIVE the #3 Pressure Point into the inside aft quadrant... or is it just DRIVEN by centrifugal force only?

Drive vs. Aim
 

Interesting question Lagster. You mention DRIVE which implies a right hand/#3 pressure point thrust into the inside-aft quadrant. My sense is that PP#3 aims and senses/monitors lag pressure but there is no active drive, otherwise you run into a situation where DRIVING overcomes centrifigal force. The result would be angled hinging through impact instead of horizontal hinging.

Bagger

Re: Centrifugal Force Swingers
 

Hitters DRIVE...swingers AIM.

If I drive with PP3 my right wrist goes flat too easily.

You need to drive to your aiming point before dumping #3pp onto the ball. Remember to keep #3pp behind your left flat wrist or you have a flat right and "throwaway."

The only 'drive' that a pure swinger could even come close to is PP#2, but I'd still call that a 'drag'.

You need to drive to your aiming point before dumping #3pp onto the ball. Remember to keep #3pp behind your left flat wrist or you have a flat right and "throwaway."[/quote]

I can "sense" it, Mike, but I can't "drive" it. Too much pressure and focus at PP3 and my right wrist is flat by the time I reach my right thigh. We are really talking about feelings and mental processes so perhaps someone else can do it, but I don't seem to be capable of it. Thanks!

Yes you can, check Yoda hitting the impact bag.
Maybe the sense of slapping a wall outside you left thigh (aiming point) with a flat wrist before either CF or hands manipulated impact dumps #3pp on the ball.

If you are losing the bend in the right wrist before you reach your right thigh then you are losing your flying wedges. read 7-19, check Yoda's impact bag clip. This forum can straighten you out or should I say keep you bent. lol.

Well... If the Pure Centrifugal Force Swinger has a Hands Controlled Pivot... and he is NOT focusing on The #3 Pressure Point to the Inside Quadrant... what is he focusing on? Left Hand--Clubface, Right Hand--Clubhead, or #3 Pressure Point--Sweet Spot?

HANDS DO NOTHING
 

In the Real Estate business it's Location, Location, Location....

In TGM it's Interpretation, Interpretation, Interpretation.....

The hands for both hitters and swingers actively DO NOTHING.....

Tomasello from his 1991 GI interview: ....."once you have set the flat left wrist and the bent-back right wrist at address, the hands do absolutely nothing throughout the swing. That is a major hurdle for most golfers; to do nothing with their hands and wrists feels foreign, because they've been manipulating them so many different ways throughout their lives."

DG

what about the cocking of the left?

The Left Wrist cocks because the right elbow cocks....Tomasello Australia video....

The hands don't move the hands....

DG

Exactly...i never learned a correct horizontal hinge and swivel until i just let it happen.

Then why did Homer prefer a Hand Manipulated Swing over a Pure Swing?

Incidentally, I think it's a misnomer. A Hand Manipulated Swinger is in reality a Left Wrist Manipulator.

Then... it sounds like some of you think Pure Swingers are using Pivot Controlled Hands.

Not necessarily. If you monitor the hands, but don't manipulate them, you have a Pure Swing in which the Pivot is Hand Controlled. On the other hand(no pun intended), if you monitor the Pivot, and rely on it to bring the hands to Impact location, you have a Pure Pivot Controlled Swing. I believe the latter will force you into an Automatic Flip Release, which requires a precise Pivot to "time the flip".

YOU GUYS ARE SO WAY OFF
 

THE HANDS ARE MONITORING DEVICES.....

THE HAND CONTROLLED PIVOT IS A CONCEPT FOR YOUR MIND, NOT A PHYSICAL ACT WITH YOUR HANDS...


YOUR MIND IS DIRECTING HANDS ALONG THE DELIVERY PATH IN TURN DIRECTING YOUR PIVOT TO MOVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT DELIVERY PATH....


HANDS CONTROLLED PIVOT IS NOT A PHYSICAL ACT THAT YOU DO WITH YOUR HANDS.....YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM.....FROM START-UP IT"S BACK, UP AND INWARD WITH THE RIGHT FOREARM AND CLUBHEAD TRACING THE DELIVERY LINE.....ONCE THE CLUB IS PARALLELTO THE PLANE LINE, YOU PHYSICALLY TAKE YOUR RIGHT FOREARM AND MOVE THE HANDS ALONG THE STRAIGHT LINE DELIVERY PATH UNTIL THE HANDS ARE SHOULDER HIGH, AS YOU TAKE THE HANDS ABOVE SHOULDER HIGH TO THE END ASSEMBLY POINT, THE HANDS MOVE UP THE ANGLE FORMED BY THE BENT RIGHT WRIST, Hence the name, "Top Arc and Straight Line Delivery Path"


THE GOLFING MACHINE IS AN INTEGRATED SYSTEM MUCH LIKE A FLYING MACHINE (an AIRCRAFT).....HOMER WORKED FOR BOEING, I WORK BOEING....THE GOLFING MACHINE was written like an engineer who would build an aircraft....it's a component system with the end result being a complex integrated system. After you learn the components, you must move quickly to understand how the components integrate into a complete system, which Homer called "The Star System of G.O.L.F". Study Chapter 9 and section 12-13-0.

DG

Tom taught... "the pivot controlls the hands on the backswing, and the right forearm controlls the Pivot on the downswing." "The hands do nothing but hold on."

Mr. Doyle Teaches... "the mind is in the hands, but the Pivot moves the hands."

The book does say in 2-M-3 that... "The Hands are strong, educated, adjustable clamps attaching the Club to the Arms for control of the Clubface alignments. By themselves they are actually able to drive the ball only a relatively short distance. Even the Wristcock is not properly an action of the Wrist muscles. So the only absolutely essential contribution of the Wrists is "holding on"."

What do you think?

Someone's way off all right!
 

DG,

"THE HAND CONTROLLED PIVOT IS A CONCEPT FOR YOUR MIND, NOT A PHYSICAL ACT WITH YOUR HANDS... "

While you were shouting, you might have pointed out where I said anything about Hand Control Pivot being a physical act with the hands. On the other hand, Hand Manipulation IS a physical act.

Important Concept
 

Guys,

Mind in the hands is one of TGM's biggest key concepts.

Let's make sure we temper the discussion without assaults on understanding. I'm certain most people who have been with TGM for over a couple of years are on the same page with this.

But for folks new to TGM, this is a VERY important concept. So let's clarify and expound where needed.

Thanks,

Bagger

There is no way Tom taught a pivot controlled hand....Tom used both standard hip action and right forearm takeaway.....if he used a true pivot controlled hand a la Leadbetter, Tommy would have produced a "Top Arc and Angled Delivery Path" and a double shift plane angle....Tommy produced a "Top Arc and Straight Line Path" and a zero shift plane angle...


Joe,

What I think you're confused about is the difference between learning and performer execution, "can" be two completely different animals. See 6-P-0 and 6-R-0. Hand manipulation (putting at best) see 10-20-A.


The terms Non-Automatic and Automatic are as important to the area of learning as there are to the area of golf shot execution. Another major hurdle for the beginner into TGM.

DG

DG? So, what causes the shoulders to turn? Left? Right?
Perhaps I have become totally confused! Seems, even if taking a right forearm take-a-way, what causes the L.wrist to cock/right wrist to bend.

I believe I mentioned in another post that the left wrist cocks because the right elbow cocks....

A single answer to your questions is kind of hard because there many types of golf strokes in TGM.....right off the bat....hitting and swinging....take it to another level....3 barrel hitting, 3 barrel swinging, right arm swinging, 4 barrel hitting and 4 barrel swinging. Personal perference and/or physical strength/flexiblity can take it to another level with loading action (sweep, random or snap) and how about standard hip or delayed hip-action.

Guys, I don't have the time right now, I've got to go study for a statisitics exam.....see ya...

DG

DG,

I'm not confused, but reading things such as,

" What I think you're confused about is the difference between learning and performer execution, "can" be two completely different animals. See 6-P-0 and 6-R-0. Hand manipulation (putting at best) see 10-20-A.

The terms Non-Automatic and Automatic are as important to the area of learning as there are to the area of golf shot execution. Another major hurdle for the beginner into TGM."

could very well confuse some beginner. As Ben Doyle said, "It's not THAT hard".

I believe I mentioned in another post that the left wrist cocks because the right elbow cocks....
Seems to me it (L. wrist) cocks because of extensor action? W/O E.A. I can swing to the top w/o a L. wrist cock?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HOW to cock the left wrist... is a good question. I have also heard several different opinions on this. "Never cock the wrist with the wrist." "The cocking of the right elbow cocks the left wrist." etc.

It appears to me that this could depend upon the POWER PACKAGE LOADING ACTION. 10-22-0 It also seems that this could be accomplished MANUALLY, by MOMENTUM, or by GRAVITY( IN A DOWNSTROKE LAG LOAD).