Driver aiming point
 

Hi,
I understand the aiming point concept (in front of ball) for all
full iron shots,with the ball lying on the ground..but when you strike the ball off a tee-peg with the irons or especially with the driver,where is your aiming point or,better,what is your
aiming point? (if any).
Regards

With irons off a tee it can still be out in front....

....and further back if u want a higher shot.

Depends on the iron in hand and the trajectory u want.

And u can change your setup beforehand to adjust it without adjusting your stroke too. i.e. stance width, ball position, weight distribution (they all affect where the ball is in relation to the left shoulder)

You still will want to hit down on an iron. (it may be obvious....or it may be only very slightly, and not obvious at all...especially with, say- a longer iron off a tee...)

Longer irons I USUALLY tee up a little higher (than a short iron) and make a less descending strike. (feels more "sweeping") I don't always take a divot.

...

As for drivers...

With a NORMAL, full driver....ya ur Aiming Point will be further back than if you want to crisp an iron sitting off a tight fairway.

Now if you're TRYING to hit the driver low you might shift the AP more fwd....

...even then tho.....

....I mean....myself, I just pretty much tee it down a bit more....and/or adjust my weight distribution at Address. (this serves to move the ball back...cause it IS more back in relation to the left shoulder)

Then make the same motion.

As for SHIFTING it forward mid-swing....Aiming your hands.....I guess you could do that....or do that on top of those other adjustments to hit er really low...

Depends on the player and the shot I guess.

...

BTW besides Aiming Point and where ur hands are at Impact another good way to think of all this is how much shaft lean you have at Impact.

Know when you need more or need less.

Hi Birdie (I wish u to soon become Eagle_man)
very kind of you.
I made this enquiry because when the ball is sitting on ground
I can visually spot my AP and that facilitates my swing.
But with the ball above ground I lose that visual reference and so
didn't have any idea on how to locate the AP.
From your answer looks like a lot of calculations must be done to
find out the AP when above ground and even so,you'll never be sure u made
them right cause you don't have a visual reference point.
Do u always take into account all the items you describe prior hitting a drive?

Ciao

Aiming Point and its Variables
 

libero,

If your ball position does not change, then your aiming point must change.
i.e. In front of the ball for the wedges, the ball itself for the irons and behind the ball for the driver.

This is to facilitate the different length of the shafts and the time for them to reach an in-line condition.

If your ball position varies from club to club, then your aiming point -which could be the ball itself - would be the constant.

You can however with a constant ball position vary your aiming point to hit different kinds of shots.

Thank you Slinger,
that adds clarity to the concept of aiming point.
So can I assume that first I must find out what the lowest point of my swing is with all clubs and,
provided I always play the ball in the same position for each club,take that as my aiming point?
Thank you.
(BTW,I used to practice at the driving range near East Coast Park
when I was married to a Singaporean,many years ago)

Ciao

Hey thanks...no prob.

I'm workin on the eagles BTW. :)

I don't know that I'm 100% sure what you mean by visual ref. pt....

U mean where the club strikes a divot?

...

Ya....for a driver or longer clubs don't worry about it so much unless you're really trying for that extra downward strike (for a low trajectory shot)....

Usually for those clubs the blow is not as desceding....just make a motion man.

Alter setup and/or aim the hands SOMEWHERE more forward when you need to. (as I outlined below)

...

It's really not that hard to DO....IF your hands are trained (I can see how it could be tricky to understand all this at once tho)...

You might need to let this all "incubate" in your noggin for a while...

...

But to simplify further...

Bacically there are 2 ways to alter the amount of shaft lean, the Aiming Point, where your hands are at Impact (they are all basically the same thing) I think:

1. adjust setup (with ball location relating to l. shoulder in mind)...i.e. ball position, weight distribution, stance width...this is easier than #2 obviously....you take care of it beforehand

2. aim hands mid swing

Hope that helps.

Ball position in relation to left shoulder, correct?

Low Point
 

libero,

The lowest point of the swing is always opposite the left shoulder. Check out this diagram courtesy of Rob Noel, GSEM.



Therefore, to answer your question, you need not find your lowest point for all clubs, its there already - opposite the left shoulder with all clubs.

Notice that the low point of the swing is UNDERGROUND, below the impact plane line.

Per 1-L-13, "The Clubhead travels Down-and-Out until it reaches "Low-Point"."

As mentioned in my previous post, if you have the same position for all the clubs, i.e. 1 inch inside the left heel, you have to change your aiming point for every club.

Aiming point is a point where you direct Thrust.

That driving range is called Parkland Driving Range. If you are ever back to visit, just drop me a PM. We can go hit balls together.

Depends...
 

birdie_man,

It depends on who taught you...:laughing1

Not sure what you mean.

All I mean I guess it that even if the ball position stays the same in relation to your feet it can still be changed in relation to your left shoulder by altering stance width and weight distribution.

So basically my thinking is that ball postition in relation to the left shoulder is the most important part of ball position.

...

I know you know this I was just clarifying for the sake of this thread. (and Mr. libero here)

birdie_man,

Thanks for the clarification.

I was just trying to be funny. Different TGM A.Is teach you differently. Some espouse one ball position in relation to the left heel, yet another a constant ball position in relation to the left shoulder.

Yes, to have a constant ball position in relation to low point means a different ball position in relation to the feet assuming the stance does narrow and widen for different clubs.

Hi birdie,
sorry for not being clear enough... but you got the message.
I mean just that,I consider my aiming point the point where
my divot starts. That is the visual reference point I'm
referring to,the point where I direct my thrust,for all my irons with the ball grounded.
I don't know if that is the same concept of AP in terms of TGM.
So,as with the driver I dont take divots my visual reference point
is missing and that's why I was asking where I should direct my
thrust with the driver,just at the back of the ball?
More,I need an explanation on the difference between Low point and
Aiming point.

Slinger,
thank you,i will study that stuff.
And thank you for the invitation.

Ya the ball if anything.

Not as important with a driver.

Just make a motion man.

Smack the thing.

Give ER.

However you want to say it.

...

No time for other stuff will try to get back to it. Sorry man bedtime for ol Paul here.

Hope it's helpin thusfar.

K here's the rest...

...

Aiming Point - where you direct your stroke basically……and technically it's where you aim your HANDS....but your image of where the clubhead takes a divot is a good one....just make sure u know the hand Alignments always too. (nothing worse than hittin it good and having such a vague idea of what you were doing that you can't repeat it)

Low Point - relating to TGM terms it is opposite of the left shoulder.

Look in a mirror and swing your arm back and fourth like an elephant trunk...the lowest your hand can get is under the shoulder. The left shoulder is the center of the circle...your left arm is the radius (2 arm lengths being the diameter OF COURSE....lol)....your hand is the "satellite orbiting in a circle" if you know what I mean.

Now...obviously the club can bottom out before it is underneath the left shoulder right? (say the ball is back for example)

Why??

Basically...when you Bend the left wrist (Flattening the right wrist) it moves down....i.e. when you Release.

This is why ppl who FLIP (ppl who have Clubhead Throwaway...ppl who CAST....however you want to put it) hit a lot of shots fat and thin and pop up their drivers. Flipping makes for an inconsistent and unreliable low point.

And really.....to make the image clearer....you can think of the left wrist as the center of a circle too (errr maybe half circle unless your wrist is REALLY flexible)....if you just sit there at Address and swing the club back and fourth from JUST the wrist you can see this too.

...

Hope that don’t screw you up too much ;)...but u asked for it!.....and that is how it works.

Hi birdie,
why! that was all very helpful.
I'll have better check points for my swing now.
Thanks again.

You are welcome libero.

Good luck.

Hi Libero,

My take (and 50 cents will get you 1/2 a cup of coffee) :).

Aiming point is not necessarily in front of the ball for all irons. Homer used the example of using the ball as an aiming point for a 5 iron (hypothetical). In this case, aiming point for shorter irons would most likely be in front of the ball and longer behind the ball.

However, I do believe Homer was dead on when he said your aiming point is best found through trial and error due to everyone having different handspeed, ball placement, etc.

Hope this helps.

Patrick

Kee-rect(um)!

Hi phillygolf,
so sorry I saw your post only today. Many thanks for clarifying
the aiming point concept.
Regards