Swivel vs. Horizontal Hinge
 

What is the difference?

Hinge Action Versus Swivel Action
 

wanole,

1. Extend your Left Arm directly in front of your Left Shoulder and parallel to the ground (horizontal). Put your Left Hand into a Karate Chop position.

2. Keeping your Left Shoulder and Body stationary, move the Arm back and forth, just like a gate would swing on its hinges. This is a horizontal hinge action.

3. Once again assume the position in #1 above.

4. This time, do not swing your arm back and forth. Instead, keep it still, and twist the forearm. First palm down. Then, palm up. This is a Swivel Action.

Yoda,

I thought #4 was Turning and Rolling, and that Swivel was the gradual, minimal turning and rolling effected by the orbiting arms.

Hinge action ends mere inches after impact and swivel begins as a wrist action of the acc#3 roll. I don't know if it was Homer or Lynn (same person to me at times) who said that Swingers will see swivel to the top and thru impact as one big roll. This is on area that blends togtherfor me- Horizontal hinge, roll and swivel.

See 2-K#4 and 2-K#5.

The swinger has a start up swivel, a release swivel, a hinge action (generally hortizontal) at impact to separation (monitored until follow-through) follow by a finish swivel. Hitters only have a finish swivel.

thanks
 

That makes sense.

To Twist Or Not To Twist -- That Is The Question
 

This is a point that confuses most students of The Golfing Machine, and it is important to get it right.

A Swivel Action is a true rotation of the Hands independent of the Body's natural Turn or Arms' natural rotation. A Horizontal Hinge Action may appear to Turn and Roll but there is no independent rotation.

For example...

Stand erect with your arms hanging normally at your sides. The dial of your wristwatch faces west. Leaving your arms at your sides, turn your body to the right. Note that the dial now faces north. Did you turn your hand? No. Is it in a turned condition? Yes. Why? Because that what happens when the arms and hands maintain their natural relationship to the turning body.

Now extend your left arm in front of your shoulder and parallel to the ground. Point your left forefinger straight ahead in a mock 'shooting a pistol' configuration. Now swing your arm horizontally to the right as if you were going to 'shoot' a target opposite your right shoulder. Lower your hand to waist high. Is it in a turned condition? Yes. Did you turn it? No. This is the natural action produced by the swinging arm.

In both cases, the 'turn' was gradual and not completed until the movement itself was completed. Per 2-G, neither was an actual 'turn' of the hand, nor would its reverse motion be a true 'roll.' The left arm and hand has simply swung like a gate from its hinges and remained vertical (perpendicular) to the ground. The identical motion on an inclined plane appears to turn and roll. In reality, it is merely the Hinge Action, that is, the left wrist staying perpendicular to the horizontal plane. In other words, the wrist turns...but it is not turned (independently of the turning body or swinging arms).

However, the Swivel Action is a true rotation independent of the natural motion of the body and arms. For example, in the above drill, instead of your left wrist remaining vertical (perpendicular) to the ground as it swings first to the right and then back to the left, it would immediately twist palm down to the ground. That is an independent swivel. The same is true on the return move wherein the hand remains palm down until the arm passes the line-of-sight and twists back to its beginning 'perpendicular to the ground' alignment.

It may help to think of an actual hinge: the blade simply moves in a circle around the pin and remains perpendicular to its plane of motion. The movement is a structured, mechanical rotation of the blade about its hinge pin axis. At no time, however, does the blade itself actually twist. Now, with a pair of pliers, you could physically take hold of the blade and twist it, but in so doing, you would bend it -- the blade would no longer be perpendicular to its plane of motion -- and perhaps even tear it from its pin. In either event, the hinge action will have been destroyed.

This is what happens when you twist your left wrist -- to the right or to the left. You have a Swivel Action. In G.O.L.F., it is the Swingers Standard Left Wrist Action (10-18-A) -- Start Up and Release Swivels -- to effect On Plane Clubhead Control on the Backstroke and to increase the Lag of the #3 Accumulator into Impact. The Finish Swivel is used by both Swingers and Hitters to complete the Stroke after the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). At no time does either Swinger or Hitter use Swivel Action to control the Clubface Alignment during Impact.

That is the realm of the Hinge Action.

Yoda,

My question had nothing to do with Hinge Action. Just your #4 in and of itself, and as it relates to the term "Swivel". Your #4 describes the Turning and Rolling Wrist Actions defined in 4-C-2 and 4-C-3. However, you say that this action is "Swivel Action". Your definition of "Swivel Action" is the same as Homer's definition of Turning and Rolling.

No Problemo
 

And the problem is....? :-k

4-C-2 and 4-C-3 is the action of the wrists which occurs during the swing and especially at the release of power accumulators #3 and #4. Power accumulator#4 is the master accumulator that in itself can be considered the power drive of the body pivot. That pivot controlled by the turn and roll of the wrist position.

MJ,
A swivel IS a rotation. Hold your left hand out in front of you with your palm down. Roll it to palm up. This is a swivel. It is a rotation of the forarm, wrist, and hand. Hinge action is the hand staying VERTICAL to the plane it is hinging on. There is no rotation...the hand stays vertical.

Swivel Action: Feel And Real
 

Mike,

MJ is referring to Point #4 in my post above, not the #4 Power Accumulator. Here is a reprint of that point:

"4. This time, do not swing your arm back and forth. Instead, keep it still, and twist the forearm. First palm down. Then, palm up. This is a Swivel Action."

In his response to that post, MJ expressed his view of the Swivel:

"I thought #4 was Turning and Rolling, and that Swivel was the gradual, minimal turning and rolling effected by the orbiting arms."

The first part of his statement is true: Anytime the Wrist is Twisting from the Vertical -- Turned to the right or Rolled to the left -- it is Swiveling. Such is the case in the Swinger's Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A). Only when the Wrist is remaining Vertical to one of the Three Basic Planes of Motion -- Horizontal, Vertical or Angled -- is it Hinging. And while a Hinge Action can appear to be Turning and Rolling, the fact is that the Left Wrist is merely remaining Vertical. Therefore, there is no true rotation.

The second part of his statement is incorrect, and I believe it is a misinterpretation of Homer's description (in 2-G) of Single Wrist Action (10-18-C-1/2). Here Homer describes the Feel of Single Wrist Action "one long, slow 'Swivel' from Top to Finish" that occurs when Hinge Action is substituted for Wrist Action. In other words, it is a Hinge Action that is applied during the entire Downstroke instead of only during Impact to Follow-Through. And that Feels like a slow "Swivel." But it is not a Swivel, which is why Homer put the word in quotation marks in his description.

Hence, the pains I took in my prior post to differentiate the two.

It has been said that the internet will kill the english language. Thanks for the clearing up.

Re: No Problemo
 

No problem if that's what you are saying. But it seems to me that the Swivel is a Swivel whether you purposely do it, or it gets done by the orbiting of the tension free arms. It's still a Turning and Rolling, whether a deliberate action or a result of another action.

I fully understood from the beginning that Swivel is a rotation. My question was concerning the amount and whether it is a direct action or a result of orbiting arms.

Hinge Action is a CLUBFACE motion through the Impact Interval.

"Please, Please...Tell Me!"
 

As long as you understand the difference, that's the important thing. But please...

Tell me you understand that the 'Roll' of Horizontal Hinging -- with the Flat Left Wrist remaining perpendicular to the ground (horizontal plane) -- is not a Swivel. [-o<

"Tell me you understand that the 'Roll' of Horizontal Hinging -- with the Flat Left Wrist remaining perpendicular to the ground (horizontal plane) -- is not a Swivel. "

I understand that. And also from 2-G, "There is the "Release Roll" (Swivel) which is a true rotation of the Hands into Impact alignment by Accumulator #3 (with 10-18-A only)." And, after Separation, a Swivel may be used to Roll the hands into an On Plane Condition.

On The Same Page
 

Yay! :D

If Hinge Action Control is required only from Impact to the end of Follow-through (7-10), would that mean the finish swivel would occur at the end of Follow-through instead of just after seperation?

The Tarzan Principle -- A Tale Of Two Vines
 

Yes, Drew. The Follow-Through -- Both Arms Straight Position -- essentially completes the Acquired Motion (12-5-2). The Finish Swivel begins the Total Motion (12-5-3) and serves as the link between the two.

Hinge Action is Clubface motion in the Impact Interval, which ends at Separation. So the Swivel can begin there.