Horizontal Hinging
 

I am a swinger according to GSED Alex Sloan and GSEM VJ Trolio and my own feeling. Do I have to have a conscious roll of the arms for a horizontal hinge? Is centrifugal force from the turning torso enough. If I use forearm roll I hit big hooks.

Any Suggestions?
Thanks
MJCB

FWIW

My view is:

You pre-program these things. Trust the process.

As non technical as it sounds you probably need to be btn the 2 things u mention.

Pre program the horizontal hinge then allow it to happen - no concious roll needed nor desired.

This is what comes to mind.

Here is an excercise my GSED gave me. I had a million thoughts when I saw him :)

Have at it - and hit it as far left as you possibly can (kill the ball) - then hit it even more left.

What u will find is you can hit it way left with a ton of "zing".

Once u are satisfied with that:

Hit it as far right as u can.

Then even more right.

Do whatever u need to do to do this -change yr stance etc ( if u feel u need to)

What u will find is there is a limit to how far u can hit it right.

all of the above assumes the imperitives are in play ie. non of the above means that u will polish the ball - u can compress it with any of the above

Then combine the 2 - result will be a powerfull relatively straight shot.

Hopefully 1 of our experts can tell us more abt what is "behind" the above excercise.

Chris

mjcb,

1-With a Swinger's Horizontal Hinging, the clubface needs to be open at impact, closing as the hinge completes.

2- The hinge action is very small compared to the action of the roll and swivel. The left hand fine tunes.

3- Practice adjustments at address as cj mentioned because CF used by a Swinger will uncock and roll accumulators #2 & #3 quite well. I would think LESS about rolling the arms as I would finishing the pivot into follow through.

Basically no, just worry about making the stroke if you're a Swinger and horizontal hinging will take care of itself.

If you're a Pure Swinger, CF takes care of it. If you're a Hands Manipulated Swinger, you consciously control Hinging with your Left Wrist.

Don't let him fool you guys, MJCB hits it great, having played with him this past fall he did angle hinge a few times, but everything else was on the money.
His bad shots were more manipulation than his good, just a little steering. He has a wonderful stroke!!!


Todd

Can any of you shed any light on the excercise my GSED had me doing.

He was probably having you determine for yourself what horizontal hinging is. If you overroll, it goes left. If you don't roll enough, it goes right. The amount of roll that makes it fly straight is the FEEL for you to replicate and tell yourself "this is what a horizontal hinge feels like."

This is assuming you are a swinger and want to be using horizontal hinging.

TGM can be simple once you Master it....
 

Just follow 1-L #13 and 14 the motion is down and out....just look at section 1-L where does it say to roll with your right forearm. Really the moves are simple...down and out!!! see page 225 top paragraph....that one paragraph says a lot...big time wisdom from Homer in that one paragraph....

Just perform some short pitch shots no more than your acquired motion per 12-5-2.....use right forearm takeaway (three dimenisonal takeaway, back, up and inward) with full sweep loading, ALLOW your left wrist to rotate clockwise....it will NATURALLY.....at the end of your short backswing use a sweep release with a three dimensional impact per 7-3 THE MAGIC OF THE FOREARM to release the club....just think down and out per 1-L 13 and 14. Use can use standard wrist action, pitch basic stroke.....or use single wrist action and a punch basic stroke....just remember to keep your mind in your hands....trace the angle of approach delivery line with your right forearm and keep your hands on the straight line delivery path. Simple as that....:)

DG

What You Feel May Not Be What You Get
 

Welcome aboard, Mark, and thanks for posting!

The average golfer Steers the Club (3-F-7-A) and actually Reverse Rolls his Arms and Hands through Impact in an attempt to hold the Clubface Square to the Target Line. Therefore, he often needs to be taught the 'natural' rotation of the Arms. But at your expert level, such a conscious rotation will likely produce a Swivel Action (not a Hinge Action) and cause the Hooks you have experienced. In other words, you already are Rolling sufficiently, whether you Feel it or not.

As an example, Byron Nelson, felt he used no rotation of his Hands and Arms through Impact. Yet, when photos were taken in 1946 for his first book, Winning Golf, he was horrified to see not only the full Roll of Horizontal Hinging, but also a complete Finish Swivel! So what did he do? He simply refused to allow even one Follow-Through photo in the book! The Address and Backstroke are well documented, as is The Top and The Downstroke to Impact. But from there on there is nothing until his graceful pose at the Finish. That solved the problem for Byron, but it sure didn't help his Steering, Reverse Rolling readers!

Bottom Line: There is what you feel...and what you actually do! And what you are doing is obviously good enough.

Angled hinging is ingrained into my stroke even though I want to swing. This morning, I slowly performed the horizontal hinging motion from address to followthrough. My right arm was still considerably bent even though the leading edge of the clubface was pointing along the target line.

Conclusion: I am so used to the feel of angled hinging , that my right arm is not accustomed to the extra distance and around motion involved in horizontal hinging. I peformed the motion again and again, but this time consciously extended my right arm completely straight, while keping the clubhead inside the target line. I imagined a fly was stuck to my bicep, and I tried to pop it off by straightening myright arm completely.

Tangent time. I am really good at directing my hands, #3PP, etc inside out. However, I keep going inside out and the blur of the clubhead goes from inside out, past the target line, down the target line(steering), then finally outside in.

Initially, I thought the only culprit was lack of lower body rotation. However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.

Am I on the right track that
1) the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball, and that
2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.

Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.

Inside-Out, Inside-Aft And Tracing
 

DDL,

I reprinted from your post the Quote below. My answers appear in bold.

************************************

1. However, I was also not tracing the plane line with PP#3. By trying to strike the ball from an inside out path, I was actually tracing a plane line that was going out to right field.

There is a difference between the Inside-Out Impact that is characteristic of all On Plane Downstrokes and the Inside-Out Stroke wherein the Clubhead actually crosses the Line of Flight per 10-5-E. The latter should be avoided unless:

-- The player is deliberately attempting to produce a Draw or Hook;

-- The player is deliberately employing the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure (2-J-3). In this instance, he will erect an Inclined Plane whose baseline is 'out to right field' (10-5-E Closed Plane Line) and then 'Cover' -- not Trace -- that Line with his Clubhead.


2. Am I on the right track that:

-- the right arm ala #3PP is initially directed in a straight line towards the inside aft quadrant of the ball...

Thrust is directed at the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball only when the player is (a) monitoring the (Cross-Line) Delivery Path (of the Hands per 10-23); or (b) is employing the Hitter's (Cross-Line) Angle of Approach procedure. Otherwise, Swingers (and Hitters) monitoring the (On Line) Geometric Plane Line (the Straight Line Baseline of the Inclined Plane per 2-J-3) should direct Thrust directly at the back of the Ball. In all instances the Thrust is directed by the Tracing Right Forearm and Forefinger (#3 Pressure Point).

2) horizontal hinging with the left hand redirects the inside out motion of the wedges to an onplane motion so that PP3 traces the plane line parallel to the target line, and the blur of the clubhead is the proper inside-out-inside motion.

Hinge Action is independent of Plane and Power. Any Hinge Action can be executed on any Inclined Plane and with any one or combination of Power Accumulators.

Still can't reconcile an inside out motion with tracing the plane line, which is going forward.

You must think in terms of the Three-Dimensional Attack Angle, i.e., the player's view from above the Plane's surface. As the player Traces (with his Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point) the Straight Line Baseline of the Plane (Forward movement), the Clubhead is simultaneously moving toward the Plane Line (Down and Out movement). Hence, both the Line of Flight of the Clubhead and the motion of the Right Forearm are Three-Dimensional (2-N-0).

Tracing the Planeline/In to Out Motion
 

DDL

Try this...I stood inside a bathtub with a club shaft and a flashlight pointing at a straight line (between the tiles) while shaft was laying against the tub's outer edge. Move the shaft back and through with the shaft laying on the bathtub's straight edge. The flashlight remains shining (tracing) the straight line but the shaft with have an in to out motion coming through. I used a bathtub because I did not have a low bench around.

"...Angular Motion on an Inclined Plane." Also 1-L #5, #6, #10, #13, and #18.

PChandler

Re: Tracing the Planeline/In to Out Motion
 

Yeah...ya gotta to love the creative approaches, bathroom golf...what's next!!!

It's good to see you guys studying and applying section 1-L the gateway to percision golf.

DG

Re: Inside-Out, Inside-Aft And Tracing
 

WHOA!! That is the first time I have read anything on any TGM forum about any consciousness of back of the ball. Inside -aft quadrant has practically been tattoed on my amygdyla. You bychance didn't celebrate St patty's Day a little too exuberantly? :-))

Ok, this is way too much for me to digest now. I suprisingly found to my great delight that the first move down by Tomasello has gotten my stroke to blur correctly on my mom's Oriental rug, while she is away at CHurch. Seems to get me on the elbow plane and my hands much lower. No more bicycle handle bar high hands. I don't have any idea what part of the ball I am directing thrust at or what line I am tracing or what hinging I am using.

Undoubtedly this move is worth much futher investigation. For months, I have been directing, aiming thrusting PP3, PP2, right forearm, right elbow, right knee, and every other body part on my right side towards the inside aft corner of the ball and my hands were still coming into impact too high. Looks like this 'magic' move is the key to the third imperative, being onplane. Can't wait for the rest of the videos.

Re: Inside-Out, Inside-Aft And Tracing
 

[quote="DDL"]
Regarding swingers directing thrust at the back of the ball if monitoring the baseline of the inclined plane, I stumbled on this a week ago when practicing .

My tendency is too push shots straight right if I aim at the 4 o'clock postion of the ball(assuming 3 o'clock is back of the ball). I decided to direct my thrust to one dimple just below 3 o'clock position and this achieved two things, my drives went straight and it added 20 yards to my drive. I carried this thought to my round last week and today and it was fun to hear the other players say "this guy is absoulutely killing the ball! :D

I'm glad to hear directing thrust at the back of the ball is valid depending on the procedure used; I was beginning to wonder if I was straying off the mark.