Vijay's 'Wrong' Move -- the Infamous Flat Right Wrist
 

I think we can all agree that you don't win nine tournaments on the toughest professional tour in the world -- not to mention over ten million dollars! -- by doing it wrong! So what is Vijay doing right?

For starters, Matt has it nailed: The First Imperative is the Flat Left Wrist. The Sweetspot is never permitted to pass the Hands during the Impact Interval (1-L-#8 ). It is the Number One Alignment in G.O.L.F., and nobody does it better than Vijay (despite the unique simultaneous Flattening of his Right Wrist).

The Second Imperative is the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point. A glance at any of Vijay's Impact photos will prove that, despite his unusual Flat Right Wrist alignment, the #3 Pressure Point (Right Forefinger) is dead behind the Shaft and definitely doing its job. Importantly, it is getting a lot of support from its most faithful ally...the On Plane Right Forearm.

Finally, the Third Imperative is Tracing the Straight Plane Line. This conscious direction of the On Plane Clubhead Lag Pressure through Impact is the responsibility of the #3 Pressure Point and Right Forearm. You can rest assured that Vijay is taking care of business here because he spends hours every week -- even at his level -- making that happen. Homer Kelley called the Inclined Plane the "heart and soul of the Golf Swing." And this last Imperative -- maintaining its Straight Line Baseline through Impact -- is what Vijay's famous practice routine is all about.

You want to 'be like Mike?' Then do what 'Mike' does: Establish the Plane Line by putting two shafts on the ground a few inches apart and aligned to the Target. Then stick another in the ground behind you to establish the Plane Angle. Finally, position a water bottle just in front and to the right of the Ball (which is located between the two shafts on the ground). This is your visual 'Gateway to Golfing Perfection' through which the Arc of Approach -- the curved path of the Clubhead Blur through Impact -- must pass. Your mission is to swing Through the Ball -- and through this 'mine field' -- without disturbing any of the deliberately placed obstructions.

Do that a couple of times a week for a few weeks and watch those wayward shots 'get religion!'

Re: Vijay's 'Wrong' Move -- the Infamous Flat Right Wrist
 

Thats a great explanation. Still I do not fully understand the positioning of the two first shafts and how that "Gateway" appears. I'd be very grateful if someone would be able to provide a link to a photo of the entire setup.

He usually uses his speedstik for an aiming aid. He puts it in front of his feet to aim at the target.

He then uses some other straight bar and puts it outside the ball and this represents the plane line.

He then puts the ball in the middle.

then he puts the water bottle to the northwest corner of the ball outside the straight bar acting as his plane line.

----

The idea is to hit the ball without distrubing either "gate" this means you are coming in correctly on the inside path and going back inside and up on the correct path.

The water bottle is there so he doesn't "over do it" and goes too much inside out. If he does, with his overrolling problem is what gives Veej the big ole' hooker.

---

All of the above is why all of Vj's divots are almost perfectly straight or even curving a little to the left.

---

One last note...Phil M is similar in his left wrist is flattening as well (remember he's a lefty so our right is his left). However i would say Phil's left wrist is flat while VJ's is actually arching through impact.
Hope no one got confused on that one!

Thanks! Now I get it. One final thing: I never really understood how he positions the leaning "plane angle stick" behind him.

How does he make sure that he does not catch it on the downswing? He'd make a mess if he did. Maybe he has good-enough margin between the shaft and the plane - or its long enough that his plane-shift will end up well down the shaft - ensuring that he can not catch it.

Thanks, bambam!

It just looks close to him because of the camera angle...kinda like when an instructor is 5 feet behind the golfer but when a camera is on him it looks like he is 2" away and is going to get smacked dead square in the face.

The shaft is place well outside his swing, its there for a reference

Also, as Yoda pointed out to me once before, since Vijay is a Swinger, he will not use Pressure Point #1, so it's not a concern if the cup of his Right Hand comes off his left thumb.

As a sports photographer let me just say this- any picture of VJ with his right hand coming off the club will always be chosen by an editor. Watch VJ on TV when he is in the last group and you may not see that right hand leave the club even once. He does this far less then people think.

And in the pictures when he does- that right hand is still behind the shaft.

Here's another angle just after impact:

Holy crap...that's unreal. Very strange. But why does that happen??

I think I read somewhere that he does that to keep from hooking the ball.

comment
 

The strongest position for the right hand is not cupped..it is arched forward. It is also by far the quickest. It works from behind centerline.

This is what I believe is happening in VJs picture, and with other top pros as well.

This is my opinion, but if you doubt me go to "one plane swing" and look under "my over the top move from 1977" posted by moonshot.

I'm not saying it is better, I just think better players intuitvely understand it.
dp

mac uses this drill to help your takeaway i hit shots with it often, the plane angle shaft that is. all you do is stick the shaft in the ground on your plane line at the same angle your club is at at address about 2 feet behind the ball. i actually hit it on the backswing because i take it away on the hands plane but on the downswing i miss it by 4 to 5 inches. if you look at alot of video youll notice almost every one except hogans shaft raises 5to 12 degrees from address to impact thats why you dont hit on downswing.

X-Rated
 

That photo should be banned from this forum! Not only does he not have the "frozen bent" right wrist, but, he also clearly isn't using extensor action.

Here's your early X-Mas from Annikan
 

VJ's Actual Stuff...2004 Tour Championship...

Nice pic
 

Annikan

Thank You for posting some cool pics.

We like em:cool:

Thanks for the pics Anakin. Knowing the way that I am swinging at the moment, I will hit the shaft on the way down, hit the shaft on the ground, then the ball and then the water bottle!!! :mad: :???:
Alex

VJ-- Swinger
 

As I understand Swinging... only a Swinger could have much success with a right hand Position like this at IMPACT.
Couples also does something very similar.

A Hitter, ideally NEEDS, and USES the #1 Pressure Point, but Swingers do not necessarily need it here.

hey annikan with that water bottle there he must be doing cp if he cf it he would hit it?

Good point....that makes sense.

How can he hit the inside aft quadrant of the ball with the bottle there. I sometimes put a bottle BEHIND the ball so that I don't come over the top.

Great thread!
 

Mike - I agree to an extent!

At impact, Vijay's right hand is still on the club! Now, post impact (what is that 1- 1 millionth of a second?), his right throws but his educated left hand still is flat!


Best explanation I have hear is from Mr Brian Manzella a few years ago. He is hitting it as hard as he can with his right hand, but his educated left hand remains flat.

Makes sense to me!

Vijay is perhaps the best power ball striker on tour - Tiger included. Yoda's post is excellent!

Could you imagine having the power and accuracy he has????

Scary!

Check this OUT!!!!

NO WONDER he has to "hit a lot of balls"...

Would you teach this to your child....I won't even let my 18 month old daughter see this "XXX-rated stuff"...At least she knows how to paddle-wheel the "Right - Forearm Flyin Wedge"...

He's figured someting out I never could....Make a lotta $$$$$





Club looks a little under here....then the Right elbow can't clear the right hip....so what happens next....Roundhousing???? is his forearm on-plane at impact or above??? My forecast....ABOVE!!!

BTW ...my opinion for the right hand off the club ..is he used to swing a little more cross-line to right field w/ a hint of throwaway...now swings more on-line and has never re-educated his right wrist alignments...but as you say...at least one hand is "educated"...Good for you VJ...your 1/2 way there!!!!

Why is this XXX rated now?

What's Vijay doing wrong?....errr "wrong" (lol....I mean, I'd take his wrong moves- whatever they are).

Birdie my man ....Look at the picture...

Club below plane ...right elbow to the side of the hip...tailbone movin under "early"...He's gonna toss it ...Just like the other pictures reveal...

I'll post the entire sequence later...

VJ's swing only looks good naked eye and at Address, Top, and finish...which Ironically is the 3 Stations...Impact is not a station...

BTW...it's only opinion...mine..it's XXX-rated..two thumbs down:-k

VJ Sequence
 

Check it out!!!!



I don't like release,impact or follow-through intervals...looks like impact was executed with a swivel instead of a hinge action!!!!


The rest looks nice...you have nice looking swing VJ...

But those 3 frames are why you have to practice a lot...

Good Luck...Tiger is still the Best!!!!

Vijay's club isn't really off plane between release and follow through. He is just using the Elbow Plane.

Who thinks the Elbow Plane is more of a Pivot Controlled Hands procedure? (note I did not say you have to be using pivot controlled hands if you're using the elbow plane).

One thing I've always pondered about: if you're really using the Aiming Point properly, which is basically a Hands Controlled Pivot concept, why would you perform a shift on the downstroke? It's not like you're aiming your hands to shift down and then towards the ball. Aiming Point = straight line from the top to the ball. So if you're doing it properly, there shouldn't be a shift on the downstroke. Comments from anyone?

Tong ..with all due respect...

The club is below plane and pointing 10 dgrees to right field in frame #5...then all of a sudden he's pointing parallel and begining to bend it left...checkout his clubface to the plane in frame#7....He's demonstrating "bending the plane line right before our own eyes"....Besides the #3 PP, the right forearm are NOT in line with the Sweetpot at Impact Frame #6 This inside at release ...left at follow-through is the culprit to his pulls hooks when he hits it poorly...

I don't see what is really wrong. He has a bent right wrist and flat left at impact and the a full roll after. His right hand probably comes off because he rolls so hard thru and doesn't hold on with his right hand.

I don't see how you can tell from that pic if there isn't a hinge action. He's one of the best ball strikers on tour. I think I would take his action any day of the week.

PS. VJ doesn't have to practice that much to stay as good as he is. He is just a perfectionist.

Sorry....I have worked with several PGA Tour Players, LPGA Tour Players, and Champions Tour Playes...3 More made it through first stage today....All 3 have better alignments than VJ...Yes he's a great ballstriker...I still don't like his action...you can like it if you like...He just proves you don't have to swing the best to be one of the best...You can strike the ball well with a bad swing...and you can miss the ball with a great swing...As I said his 3 Stations look fine....Whenever the club is Parallel to the ground it should be parallel to the baseline (Shaft on the ground is parallel to his intended plane line...NOT THE SHAFT STUCK IN THE GROUND) his is pointing to the right at release and if the club were parallel to the ground at followthough it would be to the left....Right + Left = BENT


How would you rank these Pics??? VJ's Right Forearm points inside the PL....or above the plane angle of the shaft....Mac O'Grady is the only one that's dead on it....Close enough is only good for horseshoes and handgrenades...BTW...VJ is not even in Mac's league when it comes to "power- ball striking"....The only thing O'Grady lacked was knowing when to get out of the way of his own greatness....

annikan- i'm having trouble seeing the clubhead/shaft in the mac and vj pics - could u circle them (on my monitor it looks like vj's clubhead is inline w/ his hands which i suspect must not be the case given your description) ... tway (is that him pic #8 ?) appears to be parallel to the baseline, but he also appears to be going vertical - losing flex in the knees - as well or did he start w/ little or no knee flex?

djd my friend,

The reason you cannot see the clubhead, sweetspot, clubshaft, #3PP, in line with the forearm is because they are perfectly aligned on-plane...Look where the hands are ...closer....Now on all the others ...one might be a little more in,a little more out, a little too high , or a little too low with the clubhead, sweetspot, shaft, #3PP, or the right forearm...only one has them all aligned...the one you are having trouble seeing...why? because "It is aligned...Perfectly"...Hope i've helped..if I need to I will post another sequnece if graphics overlayed so it will be more obvious....Shaft right + shaft left = BENT PLANE LINE

annikan- i must be looking at the wrong thing ... i see in picture #1 (faldo?) that the shaft is pointed to left field and that in pic #4 (tiger?) that the shaft is pointed to right field but pic #3 (mac?) and pic #7 (vj) both appear to be more or less the same w/ the clubhead "covering" the hands in the down the line view ... i know i must be missing something here, pls help ... thx

VJ's clubhead is still inside his hand path and slightly below...look Southwest of his #3PP

So who's swing is in the best position? Is that Bob Tway (bottom middle)? Is that the look you are trying to achieve?

I would agree on the Swivel . . . See frame 7. Dude needs to buy some clothes that fit too.

Dunno man....looks dead on to me in that pic. I don't understand how you can say VJ's shaft is pointing 10 degrees to right field...if anything, it's pointing LEFT of the green (but still parallel to his stance, as far as I can tell).....playing a push-fade (power fade) maybe?

The only thing I can see that's out of the ordinary is hos close his right elbow is to his hip.....but Hogan was like that too....

One other thing I think you should prolly take into account too is what kind of (natural) ballflight the golfer wants to have.

What do you guys think.

Mac O'Grady Top Center has the best alignments...why would you ever think Bob Tway???? his right forearm is cross-line and his club is on-plane but below the plane of his right forearm...This pictures are organized to show some "spectrums of differences or possibilities"...there is only one photo that is proper aligned then a close second and a third....so and so on...

I think its time to get the yellow book back out and learn some of thebasic alignments.....

Right forearm tracing the plane line....Mac O'Grady...

#3PP and the sweetspot on plane....Mac O'Grady....

Maintaining a stable and stationary post...Mac O'Grady....

Clearing the right hip/right elbow location...Mac O'Grady....

Maintaining proper spacing and sequencing of the pivot components...Mac O'Grady...

Guys if you cannot see that VJ's Shaft is pointing to the right of the baseline on the ground at release...and that the clubhead is low left of the Hand Path during the follow -through then I can no longer help you...perhaps a lesson with an Authorized Instructor might help...

I know what I see and what to look for...and what I see is XXX-rated....Right + Left = BENT

Good Luck!!!

Tway is number two- not eight, isn't he?

As a photographer I never trust pictures. LOL. Are these video captures?

Can you explain the idea of BENT. What bends the plane line? The hand path? Seem to me that the clubhead travels in an orbit that intersects the plane line at one point, the ball, and would not be an indicator of wheather the plane line is straight or bent.

Questions for Knowleadge.

mike