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Some hard truths...

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 93500)

Things to try... FROM IMPACT FIX OR ADJUSTED ADDRESS... TO KEEP MY ALIGNMENTS PURE AFTER SHOOTING A MIDDLING 86!

RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE---Right elbow drives and un-cocks the left wrist. clarifying "quiet knees, quiet feet, extensor action..."

OR

RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE and you simply step left to swing and use the Horizontal Hinge by preparing to keep your left elbow following the the step left.

DO YOU SEE IT? ARE YOU PREPARED TO UN-COCK THE LEFT WRIST????

http://youtu.be/vVx6DPCIhd8

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/vVws0CQqTDc

http://youtu.be/HYfOw_7jCTA

http://youtu.be/sA9Fz28Zu2M

IN ANY CASE KEEP THE HANDS STILL ON PLANE AT OR BELOW THE LEFT SHOULDER SEE THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE AND UNCOCK ON IT THEN ROLL EITHER THROUGH CENTRIFUGAL FORCE OR THE DRIVING RIGHT ELBOW!!!

Wow :( I have really been off plane for a long time or I am seriously mis-understanding something basic!

RFT to my shoulder and drove down with my right arm from Impact Fix-good power but zero consistency. Sprayed it everywhere :confused1 shot a 48!

Sand technique worked great as did pitches and chips so that was very good and kept me in bogeysville well, mostly :eyes:

So, RFT to the top and stepped left and the Flail worked better- 42 with more power and accuracy.

So I went around again at the course for another 18 and finally just resorted to Impact Fix, RFT, and dropping my elbow with an Angle Hinge. Got tired and really didn't grind on putts so the 82 was ok, and being back in the middle was great. :)

More research needed but I know that un-cocking the vertical left wrist on plane and rolling on plane , hit or swing is right so I'll keep researching, and suggestions are welcome. :read:

ICT:

Insight!

Nice tip on "Extensor Action" from Paul Smith on "ISeekgolf.com" simply make a "thumbs up " action with your left hand! Works brilliantly at the range for Angle hinges and Horizontal hinges.

Paul's on this site! Thanks Paul!

ICT

Reaching out for a Hit!

After 175 balls, fatigued from Swinging with happy feet and knees due to a new diet, and weighing 7 lbs. less, I RFT'd, then reached out my right forearm and thumb (not PP # 3) for the ball with my driver and drove it to the end of the range straight and high some 250 yards away. I then did it 20 times or so with all types of clubs and put a scuffed Titleist into the woods at the end of the range!

I had been thinking I had to drive my back elbow at the ball which does actually work but is sort of funky compared to the smooth Swoosh of "reaching out" your right forearm for the ball!

Swinging with an Angle Hinge is a good thing and really easy.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ipulated+hands

Quote:

Golf As An Art Form
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket

Now the question and matter at hand is this . . . Since the Swinger is solely dependent upon CF for clubhead speed . . .and CF produces Horizontal Hinging naturally . . . then is the Maniplated Hands Swinger compromised as a result?
Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
__________________
Yoda

#9
09-08-2006, 10:22 PM

1

Quote:

2 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by Yoda

Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
I shall close the book on this now! Thanks Boss!
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

Quote:

#10
09-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,507
Circle Path Delivery
Originally Posted by birdie_man

How does Circle Delivery Path fit in?
Normally, the Circle Delivery Path is the product of the Shiftless Hip Turn. Great for Putting, not so great for Driving!

The Weight Shift (Hip Slide) makes possible a Line Delivery Path, but does not require it. Study 7-14, 10-14-A/C and 10-23-0/E.
__________________
Yoda

Thanks Guys!

More on the Manipulated grip swinger!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3358&page=2&highlight=Manipulated +hands

Quote:

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by Yoda
Is the Manipulated Hands Swing compromised? Not in the least.

Centrifugal Force drives the Clubhead and aligns the Clubshaft. The player aligns the Clubface based on the shot at hand and the Pattern Variations he employs.

"The Mechanics of Golf is the production and manipulation of the Line of Compression." [Italics by Yoda.]

-- Homer Kelley (2-0)

And remember...

The 'manipulation' of the Clubface occurs prior to Start Up. There is no manipulation of the Clubface during the Stroke. So, align the Clubface as necessary when taking the Grip in its 'Fix' alignments, then...

Return the Left Hand to its Flat, Level and Vertical alignment at Impact.

The Clubface will respond accordingly.
Yes! Yes! Yes! The key to the Manipulated Hands Swinger is the FLAT LEVEL VERTICAL!

The Manipulated Hands Swinger is ONLY manipulating WHERE his FLAT LEVEL VERTICAL LEFT WRIST AT IMPACT OCURRS. In otherwords back in the stance for a Hook or up in the stance for a Fade. The grip of the club is rotated to achieve a square clubface.

I thought the Manipulated Hands Swinger physically DID something with his hands. But he does not . . . He just determines the point in the stance at which he will achieve Impact with his Flat Level and Vertical Left Wrist. And adjusts the clubface as the Hitter does.

For the “True” Hitter, Moving the Ball back (Hook alignment) or forward (Slice alignment) – always with the Clubface aligned to the Target Line per 2-J-1 – gives straightaway initial direction (2-B). Opening the Clubface (Slice Grip) or Closing the Clubface (Hook Grip) at your normal Impact Fix, produces Pushed Slices and Pulled Hooks and so require a compensating Target Line adjustment to make it square to the changed Clubface alignment.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

Quote:

#15
09-11-2006, 02:11 PM
EdZ
Lynn Blake Certified Instructor

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Qingdao, China
Posts: 1,639
Yep - mark me down as a manipulated hands swinger - but I agree 100% with Leo - it should be manipulated grip swinger.

If you let impact fix and the flying wedges be your guide when you grip the club, you can fully utilize the true 'shot maker' differences in hinge action.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"

"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"

Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2

Quote:

#16
09-11-2006, 02:24 PM

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Originally Posted by EdZ
Yep - mark me down as a manipulated hands swinger - but I agree 100% with Leo - it should be manipulated grip swinger.

If you let impact fix and the flying wedges be your guide when you grip the club, you can fully utilize the true 'shot maker' differences in hinge action.
But does Manipulated Hands Swinger have anything to do with changing Hinge Action? I think it is just about where you have your Left Wrist Flat Level and Vertical in relation to your ball position.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

Quote:

#17
10-19-2007, 07:41 AM
finster869
Junior Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 29
Great discussion. How does the "aiming point" concept come into play with all of this?

Quote:

#18
10-19-2007, 09:34 AM
Bigwill
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
But does Manipulated Hands Swinger have anything to do with changing Hinge Action? I think it is just about where you have your Left Wrist Flat Level and Vertical in relation to your ball position.

Since a pure swinger allows CF to align the clubhead and clubface, which would lead to horizontal hinging, then wouldn't a swinger employing Angled or Vertical Hinging be a manipulated hands swinger, by definition? It seems like it to me, but I'm not 100% sure.

Quote:

#19
10-19-2007, 10:41 AM

Yoda
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,507
'True Swing' Requirements
Originally Posted by Bigwill

Since a pure swinger allows CF to align the clubhead and clubface, which would lead to horizontal hinging, then wouldn't a swinger employing Angled or Vertical Hinging be a manipulated hands swinger, by definition? It seems like it to me, but I'm not 100% sure.
The true Swinger is limited to one Hinge Action (Horizontal) and one Ball Location (the Straightaway Flight Location unique to each Club from a given Lie). Any other Hinge Action or Ball Location demands Manipulated Hands procedures.

For those two reasons, especially Ball Location, Homer Kelley advised against the True Swing.
__________________

More programming of the computer!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6612&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6612

bantamben1
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 124
i think the idea is to always be looking at that inside aft quadrant because if your looking at the back of the ball your more likely to come over the top or have clubhead throwaway. also my two favorite players both swung at the inside aft quadrant of the ball, hogan describes his downswing plane of glass as turning to the right of the target thus he was then swinging at the iAQ. and trevino always talked about pushing it to the right on his downswing. coicindence that these may have been the two best ball strikers ever. going at the inside aft quadrant is my key thought and has helped me to swing easy and hit big because of less clubhead throwaway.

What I needed, a good "butt" ressing of my concepts (careful out there kids)!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6030&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6030

[quote]#8
04-21-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

12 piece bucket
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Re: The Model - Mr. Hogan
Originally Posted by Bagger Lance
GG,

It is always a hand controlled pivot. Awareness of the hands is vital to a good golf swing and Homer gave us many ways to educate them.

That said, the hands will have a heck of time staying on plane if the pivot is not trained correctly. Fortunately it is not hard to understand the role of the pivot outside of accomodating the motion of the hands. There is really just one major function; weight shift.

The proper weight shift makes the start down automatic. For example, as the hands and club reach the "end" of the backstroke the weight is shifted laterally targetward by movement of the lower body, namely the hips. The hip bump is just a couple of inches targetward (assuming you haven't swayed). This does several good things. It "clears" the hips so there isn't any roundhousing, it fully loads most of the power accumulators, it provides axis tilt, and gets the hands in their on-plane downstroke alignments. Once the hands and right shoulder are put on plane by the weight shift, all thats left is taking the hands and right shoulder down and out. Some golfers like to drop the hands to a flatter plane at that point, but it's an option. Aim the butt of the club at the inside quadrant of the ball and take them down that line. The pivot will respond to the aiming of the hands by pulling them downplane through hip rotation. The key is that the hand alignments and speed are controlling the body turn. The straightening right arm helps and extensor action provides a constant speed. Mind in the hands. Awareness in the hands. The body responds.

It sounds like a lot, but it's all automatic once the weight is shifted and the hands are released on their assigned downstroke path by the turning hips.

So setting up for the weight shift is really important. I like Hogans model and so does Lynn. He showed me how to set up the pivot last November and it's made a huge difference.

Bagger
Bagger,

Could you please expand on "how to set up the pivot"? Thanks man!

Richard
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

Quote:

#9
04-21-2005, 10:52 PM

Bagger Lance
Administrator

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,325
Somebody order Pizza???
Aloha,

Setup is one of my favorite subjects so thanks for asking.

I feel relatively confident discussing it because everytime I visit the swamp, Yoda always comments on it. "I love that setup"...and..."you keep your head very still, we don't need to worry about that".

There are several analogies for the basic feel of it from a muscular readiness standpoint. Think of the following; a 1000M runner lined up at the starting line waiting for the gun, A linebacker preparing to rush the QB. It is a very athletic setup position. A state of readiness.

Anyone who lifts weights will recognize the muscular tension associated with preparing for a squat. Your body can be relatively relaxed with weight on your back, but the spine is perfectly straight to handle the weight, the kness are slightly bent, the weight is balanced across the feet, and the quads are in a state of readiness to accept the load. Ted has told me that after a day long range session, his left quad burns and can be sore the next day. I'm not suggesting you need to have a large amount of tension in the legs, just a state of readiness. My leg tension varies with the shot at hand and I've found a certain amount of muscular stability in the legs allows the rest of my body to relax. It's the platform to swing from.

In every case, you are set up "decidedly targetward" or as Yoda would say, "decidedly leftward". The weight isn't favored on the left side, it is balanced but the muscular readiness is targetward. My initial impression of it when I first started using it was that I couldn't differentiate the weight ratio left or right, but it felt like I was pressing the earth down with my left foot. From a muscular tension standpoint, my left quadricepts are much more activivated than the right. The right side presses into the left. But the weight is balanced. From there, I'm ready to take it back.

It's not stiff, but it's not loose either. As the body turns on the backswing, the left knee moves to accomodate the motion and the right leg can straighten slightly if you wish. At startdown, the hip bumps targetward, the left knee moves to accomodate the weight transfer. The weight is shifted into the left leg with the hip bump. The left quad takes a nice share of the load as you drive the left foot into the ground

Oh, one more impression. You feel like you can really rip the ball as you look down on it, and you will.

Aloha,

Manipulated Hands Swinging for fun and profit!

[quote=innercityteacher;93633]What I needed, a good "butt" ressing of my concepts (careful out there kids)!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6030&highlight=inside+quadrant#po st6030

Quote:

#8
04-21-2005, 09:36 PM

Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand

79 with a "forced" triple bogie on a par 3 ! Can I call it Angle hinge Swinging?

:golfcart:

ICT

Boiling it down still further by one of the most gifted golf writes I know!

I DON'T OFTEN HIT! I un-cock my right wrist to swing. I actually just throw my left wrist at the ball and everything else goes along, BUT WHEN I DO HIT I KEEP THAT RIGHT WRIST LEVEL!

But Daryl really is one of the "most interesting men in golf!"

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...ht=Angle+Hinge

Daryl
Senior Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,208
The difference between Hitting and Swinging eventually boils down to which force Uncocks the Left Wrist. The two forces available are Centrifugal Force and Muscular Effort.

KEY CONCEPTs:

1. Hitting and Swinging differ by which force moves the Secondary Lever (Golfclub).

2. ONLY the Right Arm Can Hit. A Swing are made with the Left Arm or the Right Arm.

One can only Hit if the Right Wrist remains LEVEL through the Release and Impact Intervals. If the Right Wrist is Cocked and subsequently Uncocks during these Intervals, then, no matter how much force is used or whether the Force is Right Triceps or Right Forearm Thrust or Both, the Stroke is a SWING.

With the Right Hand off the Club, look at the Left Wrist Uncocking, and readily see the Clubhead surface Speed Increasing. With the Right Hand and club only, with its Fixed Level Right Wrist, the Right Forearm and Club form a "single unified assembly". It doesn't Uncock. If you use Right Triceps Thrust (Acceleration) to drive this FIXED assembly, it is solely responsible for moving the Clubhead. Then, Uncocking the Left Wrist serves only to accommodate the Straightening of the Right Arm. Centrifugal Force is Avoided by using a Straight Line Thrust (The easiest way to avoid CF is by moving in a straight line) across the line.

So, to be a Hitter, or be considered a Hitter, the Level Right Wrist must remain Fixed. Ask the Golfer if he Cocks his Right Wrist. That's easy enough. That's the Acid test. If his Level Right Wrist Remains fixed, then your guess is as good as mine. If you Cock and Uncock the Right Wrist, you can be a Swinger, Switter (Combo Hitter-Swinger, bad), Flinger (Right Arm Swinger) or Dinger (you guessed it), but not a Hitter.

A lovely chipping method!

Isolate your front hand directly over the ball with a vertical left wrist about 45 degrees to the target line and RFT a little to a lot to see the variety of shots and outcomes of this dependable method.

ICT