Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79455)

The difference between Throwing to and Throw away..."You cannot move this way (Vertically Un- cocking Left Wrist) and that way (Vertically Bending left Wrist-Throw away) at the same time! "There is no independent motion of the arms..dragged down by the Pivot....(to Jeff Hull) another frozen rope...do you ever mis one?"

"So the mystery of the golf swing fades away." : > Thanks Yoda and Jeff.
ICT

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79456)

ICT,

Are you quoting someone, from somewhere? Are you quoting Jeff Hull? Yoda?

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 79486)

City, your post reminded me of a picture I had seen in our friend Paul Smith's iSeek Golf School. I thought you might enjoy it.

Kevin

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79491)

Hey, are you turning your bilzard into any sledding at your course?

ICT

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 79492)

Oh Man, if we did, nobody could get there. It's B R U T A L ! :crybaby:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79533)

More insight. The wider my stance, the less significant my front leg shortness is, and both wrists level really works. 1-2 Right hip/Right hip and the Vertically Un-cocking Left Wrist is Thrown through the ball and the Forward Swivel. Watch where the club face begins to close to determine ball flight.

ICT

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79535)

A wider stance is also much more appropriate for Horizontal Hinging because the Right Forearm can more easily return to the Angle of Approach with a pitched Elbow Location.

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79550)

I also have to work more with the Taly to make sure my wedges stay together. (Try keeping your hands in the course to the flag...is it proper to tilt shoulder up and back in a more pendulum motion as Moe thought he did?)

Just 3 more months to April!!!!!!! :notworthy :dance: :golfing_banana:


ICT

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79867)

I've been watching Mr. Tomasello's video on "The Pivot."

http://lynnblakegolf.com/index.php/V...The-Pivot.html

I have watched his lowering the right shoulder motion and I can do it, even with a wider stance and after RFT takeaway.

I have lost 4 lbs. this week on Weight Watchers Online. I think if I do 50 of these repititions, daily, I can burn a little more whale blubber. :)

Is this Pivot exercise a good one?




ICT

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79871)

Are you referring to the one where he places the club behind his back and then slides his hips to his left while his head stays over his right foot?

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79876)

That's the one. ICT

Originally Posted by chipingguru (Post 79880)

Daryl,

That move has been a very hard one for me to achieve. I chronically lunge my upper body on the dowswing, throwing my club away, and ending up in a sickening flat right wrist bent left wrist position with the club leading the hands at impact. I am 48 and the photographs of my impact look the same now as when I was 18.

How do you get out of that?

Originally Posted by chipingguru (Post 79880)

Daryl,

That move has been a very hard one for me to achieve. I chronically lunge my upper body on the dowswing, throwing my club away, and ending up in a sickening flat right wrist bent left wrist position with the club leading the hands at impact. I am 48 and the photographs of my impact look the same now as when I was 18.

How do you get out of that?

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79878)

Ok. Can you do the Drill with your Head Centered in your Stance and only move your hips as needed?

Isn't this one of the MacDonald Drills with the Club behind your back?

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79883)

Very S-L-O-W pivot practice without a club. During the Backstroke your weight shifts to the right. Draw your right hip away from the target line when doing so without moving your Head. During the Downswing, your goal is to keep the weight shift ahead of your Hands. Don't move the weight to the left all at once. Do so gradually with the weight pulling your left hand along with it. Even though you may initiate the Downswing by planting your left Heel, the weight shift should be gradual during the Downstroke, and not a Hop To The Left. Hop to the Left is for "The Rocky Horror Picture Show". Stay in your Posture. Learn the Mechanics and remember the "Feel".

The MacDonald Drills have a drill that has you March in-place during the Swing. Try that Drill. http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...20861548192705

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79953)

Kevin Carter, happiness surround him and all he knows, sent me this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Loq...e_gdata_player

I only counted 39 Kellian Archetypes ripped off by Mr. McClean, but I'm a newbie. If you want to see how great Lynn is by comparison with a "popular' teacher, watch the clip.

Oh and Brad Faxon had "too much lag" and "we just don't teach a method at our school."


:)

ICT

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 79878)

Ok. Can you do the Drill with your Head Centered in your Stance and only move your hips as needed?

Isn't this one of the MacDonald Drills with the Club behind your back?

Originally Posted by OB Left

Therefore the prime consideration is really the relationship of the Right Shoulder to the Hands as its the Hands which are on Plane while the Left Arm is not.

-In the first photo Mr Hogan's Left ARm is roughly in line with his Right Shoulder but in lower photos it has dropped somewhat. Yes, this is normal Id say. But if you dont mind I'd like to talk about the Hands a bit: The Hands appear to be approximately on the same plane as the Right Shoulder in Startdown , the first photo. Hard to say cause you cant see the ball, but assuming that to be true.....this is by definition a TSP being employed. The best way to Startdown. However in the latter photos his Hands (and his left arm too) can be seen to be getting lower vis a vis the Right Shoulder .............this is to my mind caused by two things: 1. He is dropping his Hands to a lower plane an Elbow Plane . Which for Mr Hogan given his flat backswing Plane wasnt much of a drop in terms of degrees when looking at it "down the line". 2. The free ride that the Hands get courtesy of the Right Shoulder down the TSP does not last past Startdown. The Right Shoulder cant make it all the way to the Ball on the Turned Shoulder Plane. The Hands, the entire Power Package in fact continue the journey on their own without the pulling of the Right Shoulder as they have broken free, are accelerating away from the Right Shoulder by the commencement of the Downswing (Release). The Right Shoulder then levels out some normally ......... So the relationship between Right Shoulder and Hands (or Left ARm) will always get more divergent after Startdown, particularly for those that are in the process of shifting to a lower plane.

-the "perverted" Axis Tilt is so disgusting I can barely describe it but suffice it to say that instead of a Hip Slide to lower the Right Shoulder (the axis of the shoulders) all the time with a centered Head its a grotesque tilting of the shoulders (without the Hip Slide) which sends the Head backwards of its centered position. So you've lowered the Right Shoulder but at the cost of your Stationary Pivot Center...... no Pivot center and therefor no circle, no constant radius etc.

Originally Posted by Yoda's Luke

In 2-H, Homer writes about the direction of the Right Shoulder:

"But the Shoulders do have crucial On Plane functions – synchronizing and aligning the Pivot Motion and Thrust with those of the Power Package (Chapter 6). “On Plane” Right Shoulder Motion is possible only by titling its axis – the spine. See 7-14. In this area the Left Shoulder is helpless. The geometry of Shoulder Control deals only with Right Shoulder, for there are no guide lines for Left Shoulder control of the Right Shoulder. Therefore, variations in Right Shoulder location will vary the Left Shoulder location at Impact and, consequently, the Low Point location as well as the Angle of Approach (2-N).

Being a part of the Pivot and the Power Package, the Right Shoulder must reconcile them by moving with the greatest precision for thrust, speed, direction and distance. (7-3) So the Right Shoulder does not flap around haphazardly – it has many responsibilities. And variations in its Impact location will vary the Right Elbow’s Impact Bend and so may alter the Impact alignment of the Clubface."

So, the Right Shoulder can have direction, because it can move toward a Plane Line. There's no specific direction in "swinging left", as there's no direction for the Left Shoulder or the Hips. The Hips rotate more on a horizontal plane than on the inclined Plane. Therefore, giving them any direction is haphazard.

As the ball and Plane Line get closer to the body with a shorter club, the Plane steepens. As the ball and Plane Line moves away from the body with a longer club, the Plane shallows. Therefore, a Shoulder Turn Throw differs in direction with ball location. We do have options or preferences in steeper versus flatter Planes, as Nicklaus and Hogan were both successful.

When the Right Shoulder, the #3PP, and the Sweet Spot are married together at Top and move in the same direction in Start Down, the forces are aligned for maximum efficiency. Divergent forces are simply less efficient, but are found all the time on the PGA Tour.

In my own 4 Barrel Hit, the Pivot Drags the Power package toward the Plane Line with a Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C). And, I follow with a Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). It feels like I’m throwing a baseball at the golf ball.

Originally Posted by Daryl

Yes......

The Pivot generates the Raw underlying Power either like a Flywheel or, in addition, acts like a Backstop for Right Arm Thrust.

What tells the Pivot where to go?? The Hands should. The Pivot should go where the Hands need it to go and not subjugate the Hands into trying to accommodate the Pivot. The Pivot should Accommodate the Hands. But you can be very successful either way........

Originally Posted by KevCarter

I think these ideas 12 Piece has explained is huge to my understanding of swinging left...

I create that perverted axis tilt YODA talked about, my right shoulder goes down with no out, and I'm stuck swinging way out to the right. No possible way to get left no matter how hard I try, and no way to get on top of the ball with my sternum.

Getting the right shoulder to go OUT along with down opens my shoulders slightly at impact, and allows me to swing back up the plane line (swing left) instead of out to the right, causing either massive blocks or the quackers.

Still excited a day later!

Originally Posted by OB

cant find my 5 lessons did Hogan really equate the pane of glass to the Plane the Shoulders turn on? That pretty darn steep, I dont recollect him doing that.....That'd be steeper than Rotated wouldnt it?

One thing I gotta note: The Right Shoulder is part of the Power Package in that it takes the Power Package the Hands down the Inclined Plane in Startdown. The right shoulder Drags, the Power Package down the Inclined Plane .....towards the ball, briefly during Startdown. This move relates to "Startdown Waggles" and/or Mr Hogans demonstration of what he termed "the most important move in golf" in the Shells WW of Golf video available on this site.

For you to have your Right Shoulder take the Left Arm Down the Inclined Plane you'd have to have your Right Shoulder , Left Arm and Hands all on the Inclined Plane, no? A "Left Arm Plane" as opposed to a Turned Shoulder Plane. Which would require a zeroing of #3 Angle too wouldnt it? Moe came kinda close maybe but didnt get all the way there.

The Right Shoulder taking the Hands down plane while the Left ARm is not on plane is far more common Id say. A necessary move for those who dont want to start down with their arms or hands......"hitting from the top" as its commonly known. "Swinging from the Feet" on the other hand, as Homer referred to it, the Downstroke Sequence of 6-M-1, is classic Hogan. In fact in regard to this Sequence Homer said "now you take Hogan , THE ideal...." .

I believe Homer had Hogan in mind when it comes to the description of Drag Loading in Startdown and Swinging from the Feet.

But that isnt to say he didnt Thrust in Release ...... 4B Hit. Our own Ted Fort and Lynn Blake Hit with a Swingers Startdown , Drag then Drive. (Although they can both Drive Load 3B Hit if they want to). In the former the Right Shoulder keeps on moving , in the latter it hangs back and backstops the Thrust .....Launching Pad.

So Id personally say that if MR Hogan is hitting its after a Drag Loading , Swingers Startdown. Longitudinal is clearly evident , Active Left Wrist , Pitch Elbow so if he is Thrusting right at the bottom it with a lot of Swingers Components.

So the million dollar question then becomes ..........if he is Thrusting , Actively unbending his Right Arm in a Throwing like manner (no way is it a linear thrust ...which is a huge misconception about the Hitters Right ARm motion in Total Motion ......linear Push Basic is for Basic Motion only, maybe you could do it in Acquired too I guess). Sorry Ill start it again:

If he is Thrusting , what is he thrusting against? What pressure point? For it to be #1 he's really poorly aligned with his Pitch Elbow, isnt he? Any one ready to enter the Lab with an X Classification Throw or similar? I've got an idea but its a weird one.

Originally Posted by airair (Post 80265)

I'll see if I can make sense of all this before March..
If not - It's not your fault. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Originally Posted by innercityteacher

Ok Pat, don't tell anyone you have hidden some cool stuff here from OB, Yoda's LUke, Daryl and Bernt R! These are the answers to your last 20 questions and probably all that Jerry and Air ever really needs to know apart from the short game!

And, Kevin gave a nice illustration as he so often does:

And, O.B. really drove the nail into the coffin:

Now MR. ICT, see if you can put this together in your own confused little mind during these next few frozen months!


Moi!

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 80392)

My New Years resolution is not to write a Post with more than 100 words.

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 80401)

Funny, Daryl. :laughing9 I do believe we have a new leader in the 'word count' category! :notworthy

I've reformatted InnerCityTeacher's post (quoted in yours) to make it a bit more "user friendly". It's a lot to digest, but worth the effort, and it shows he's definitely paying attention.

Thanks to ICT for his compilation and for the job well done by all his contributors!

:salut:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 80401)

Funny, Daryl. :laughing9 I do believe we have a new leader in the 'word count' category! :notworthy

I've reformatted InnerCityTeacher's post (quoted in yours) to make it a bit more "user friendly". It's a lot to digest, but worth the effort, and it shows he's definitely paying attention.

Thanks to ICT for his compilation and for the job well done by all his contributors!

:salut:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 80420)

I'm shooting par next year or lower. Someone please tell me I can't ! :toothy1:

ICT

Originally Posted by tim chapman (Post 80442)

ok ICT i'll play :-) ..... 50 usd to your chosen charity says you don't play to standard scratch (think you call it the course rating) in 2011

Good luck - hope you get there

my goal is 3.0 hcp from 5.0

Originally Posted by JerryG (Post 80445)

It is that time of year to be making some resolutions.
Last year I worked from a GHIN of 14.5 to a 7.7. This coming year I would like to get to a 4.
I am not betting against City, but I am pulling for him. I've seen that act and he will work his way to his goal. I wish he'd change it to a 3, though.

Originally Posted by tim chapman (Post 80451)

yes it is that time of the year, 14.5 to 7.7 was impressive, good luck with the new target

Originally Posted by JerryG (Post 80445)

It is that time of year to be making some resolutions.
Last year I worked from a GHIN of 14.5 to a 7.7. This coming year I would like to get to a 4.
I am not betting against City, but I am pulling for him. I've seen that act and he will work his way to his goal. I wish he'd change it to a 3, though.

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 80463)

If I am not a 4 hcp. by the end of next year, I'm not playing. When I see Lynn in April, I bet he shows me enough the first 2 hours to shoot par. :salut:

Tim, I 'm sure you can putt. I know Jerry can be a beast ( very effective). When Kevin heals and starts playing, I think Jerry will be even more competitive. There are lots of strong players in that neighborhood!

Where do you men struggle and loose strokes?

ICT

Originally Posted by tim chapman (Post 80466)

i've had occasional good days but full swing has been my weakness - hopefully TGM puts that right, if i can assemble a decent reliable full swing i can make enough putts & scramble well enough to get the job done i hope - but i'll have to get cracking early - wish i could come to Georgia, that would be really cool - maybe in 2012