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If there is no deceleration then lag/wrist cock would be sustained until well past the ball, and you wouldn't actually hit it! The arms have to decelerate for the wrist cock to be released surely?? It works the same for the rest of the sequence, hips/shoulders/arms yes? That's how I understand it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkler (Post 66678)

No. Never.

Of course I'm keen to hear more though Daryl! I'm willing to learn something new each day,,,,

Daryl
In all respect how do you know you dont(should) decelerate each segment, hips, trunk, arms, as part of your swing? My understanding of summation of segments for increasing velocity etc is dependent on each prior segment slowing to enhance the transfer to the next segment.
Do you think you dont decelerate or have you measured data that says you dont?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 66677)

I was just screwing with Weetbix.

I agree with much of this but not that deceleration is needed to transfer momentum to the next acceleration stage.

I feel that my own Pivot supplies all of the Work. I also feel that the work that the Pivot provides is separate but synchronized with the Downstroke Acceleration sequence of my Power Package.

My Pivot components don't slow or stop and are sequenced to provide continuous motion and power to the Swing. My Hips lead and power the Shoulders throughout the Downstroke. My Shoulders trail my hips at least until the Finish Swivel.

Foot, knee and Hip Actions are sequenced. Keep in mind that Foot loading is different for Straight and Circle Delivery Paths. So, the Pivot will look different, sequence differently and provide different work. Foot loading is vastly important. Without sensing and sequencing the Ground pressures through my feet and allowing my feet to increase and decrease these pressures, It's difficult to move the Hips very far and it's not possible for the Hips to drive the shoulders through Impact and beyond. Ground Pressures are very powerful and yet can be very sensitive and delicate around the greens. The Sequence doesn't change but the pressures and spacing and pacing of the components changes to fit the shot at hand. It's almost unconscious.

All of this was taught to me by Yoda, years ago.

Daryl,
How do you know, unless your have been tested to measures your body speed etc how do you know if they are accelerating and decelerating.
You can't no one can.
Myself I can't even feel these events occurring, the body is moving so fast you can't sense acceleration and deceleration occurring.

Daryl your going on your beliefs here. here's how conservation of momentum work
Formula M1*V1=-M2*V2
example
The above equation is one statement of the law of momentum conservation. In a collision, the momentum change of object 1 is equal to and opposite of the momentum change of object 2. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2. In most collisions between two objects, one object slows down and loses momentum while the other object speeds up and gains momentum. If object 1 loses 75 units of momentum, then object 2 gains 75 units of momentum. Yet, the total momentum of the two objects (object 1 plus object 2) is the same before the collision as it is after the collision. The total momentum of the system (the collection of two objects) is conserved.

In golf you need 6-M-1, conservation of momentum and muscular loading which fires each body segment to continue to create velocity(speed) until the distal end speed reaches the club.
Each body segment must accel/decl to transfer speed.

No beliefs or opinions, pure physics and measured science to back the theories.

Daryl, I could understand why your not doing this in your golf swing, if you were accelerating and decelerating each body segment you wouldn't be here you would be out on tour winning.
We all would be out there winning LOL.

As I say to everyday to those who argue, where is there measured science and research to back their beliefs and where is there measured science and research to prove us wrong. And what back ground or understanding do they have in biomechanics and movement patterns. SO they stop and think for minute so they open up their minds to other avneues.

Although the laws of physics all the biomechanists are on the same page, they all agree on newton's laws, conservation of momentum and the kinetic link. This is applied in all bat and ball sport.Not only golf we work with athlete's in many other sports and has tens of thousands athletes data. Years of research involved.

As I said no beliefs or opinions, we have research, measured science and Pure physics.

I haven't been measured.

Quote:

2-K GENERATION OF ANGULAR MOTION Angular Motion is the result of at least two divergent forces. Such as, -A. Centripetal Force (the Lever Assemblies 6-A) diverting Linear Force (Right Arm Thrust 6-B-1) into a rotating motion (Hitting 10-19-A). Or – B. Turning its axis (the Body 2-M-4) to spin a flywheel – the Lever Assemblies (Swinging 10-19-C).

Rotation induces a Throw-Out action, pulling the centers of gravity of every moveable component, In-Line and On Plane with its axis or center, whether or not they were originally In-Line or On Plane. With a short radius it can accelerate easily, and quickly acquire considerable Angular Velocity. If a portion of this mass moves to a longer radius, the slowing effect (6-C-2-B) must be computed on the basis of the total mass AS LONG AS THE PORTION IS BEING PROPELLED BY THE TOTAL. That is – the slowdown would be in the same ratio that the portion has to the whole – the original central mass. This “Transfer of Momentum” process (10-19-C) eliminates Release Deceleration (6-F-0) but not Impact Deceleration (2-M-1). This Throw-Out action is termed herein as “Centrifugal Acceleration” to indicate that Centrifugal Force (Centrifugal Reaction), not muscle, is propelling the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) into Impact. So Swingers are totally dependent on their skill at manipulating Centrifugal Force while Hitters are not. But study 4-D, 6-B-3-0, 6-R-0 and 7-2.

Compare the Primary Lever Assembly (6-A-2) with the common flail. While the “swingle” is seeking its “in-line” (full extension ) relation with the “handle” (catching up) there is “Centrifugal Acceleration.” When it becomes “in-line” (caught up) this settles into “Centrifugal (Angular) Momentum” (Full Extension). If it passes its “in-line” relation, it again seeks its “in-line” relation (backs up) and “Centrifugal Deceleration” sets in with a huge power loss. These three phases demonstrate what is termed herein “The Law of the Flail” – the Swingers primary concern.

Bold by Daryl

Have you ever seen a Pre-Stressed Golf Shaft going into Impact?

Quote:

If the Pressure Point pressure that produced the initial Clubshaft flex is maintained it will maintain the flex also. So the pressure will be a steady smooth Thrust form the entire Power Package Assembly, and will produce a constant rate of acceleration of the Primary Lever Assembly. If the Pivot moves the Right Shoulder at the same speed as the Power Package – or Primary Lever Assembly – the Accumulators will not be Released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten. Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained – it has NO Release Point.

Where does the energy come from to accelarate the clubhead past your hands if your hands do not slow down? Newton and Gallileo pretty much nailed that you can't just create energy out of nothing. If your hands accelarate to top speed and then don't decelarate until after you've hit the ball then the clubhead cannot accelarate faster than the hands do and so you wont get a release.

You can't say that CF just does it. Put a free swinging arm on a wheel and keep spinning the wheel at a fixed speed - the arm will never catch up. It will only catch up if you decelarate the wheel. This is pretty basic physics.

Or am I missing something? You can't just take something someone says as gospel if the basic physics don't stack up. There must be something else added - so what do you understand that is?

Maybe someone could post a video of a functional swing where the hands do not slow down at/towards impact? I've been looking at the tube and I can't find one, certainly happens for Norman, Woods, Hogan, Ogilvy, Gay etc etc from what I can tell, even without state of the art measuring equipment.
Maybe Newton never played :golf: so his laws don't apply here?:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weetbix (Post 66689)

Where does the energy come from to accelarate the clubhead past your hands if your hands do not slow down? Newton and Gallileo pretty much nailed that you can't just create energy out of nothing.

Pivot: Hip Action
The Pivot has a Sequence in Swings using a Straight Line Delivery Path.

Left Heel lowering: Accelerates the Right Shoulder
Sit-down: Accelerates the Arms/Hands (Power Package)
Hip Action: Accelerates (Drives) the Hands through Release and Impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weetbix (Post 66689)

If your hands accelarate to top speed and then don't decelarate until after you've hit the ball then the clubhead cannot accelarate faster than the hands do and so you wont get a release. You can't say that CF just does it. Put a free swinging arm on a wheel and keep spinning the wheel at a fixed speed - the arm will never catch up. It will only catch up if you decelarate the wheel. This is pretty basic physics.

When your hands approach release, they change direction; from down to forward, which induces throw-out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weetbix (Post 66689)

Or am I missing something? You can't just take something someone says as gospel if the basic physics don't stack up. There must be something else added - so what do you understand that is?

Yes, you're missing stuff.